# Postmen censor BNP **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185 "2004-05-26T15:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/1 "2004-05-26T15:28:20Z")
[http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm\_objectid=14267874&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=posties-ban-bnp-name\_page.html](http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=14267874&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=posties-ban-bnp-name_page.html) Do you think this is right? Should pstmen be allowed to decide what is and what isn’t posted through your letter box? Seeing as Royal Mail has a near monopoly on postage in the UK, how can this be legal? Personally, I believe that it’s up to me what I throw in the bin or not, not my postman. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/2 "2004-05-26T15:43:05Z")
Heh heh, conscientious objector posties! I actually live in an ethnically diverse part of Cardiff and one of my mates is a postie - maybe he’s one of the ones you mention. I’ll give him a ring tonight. The Royal Mail are arranging that the leaflets are delivered by other employees - the contractual clause only applies to what the individuals themselves personally deliver. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/3 "2004-05-26T18:24:55Z")
Contractually-bound or not, I admire them for taking a stand. FWIW, I pulled down BNP posters from local noticeboards a few weeks ago. No new ones reappeared. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/4 "2004-05-26T18:59:57Z")
Could someone fill in us non-Brits? I’ve heard people compare this British National Party to the Nazis. I know the BNP is far-right, nationalist, hostile to immigration, and for pulling the UK out of the European Union, but that’s all I know. Does it really deserve to be characterized as Nazi or fascist or whatever? Does it want to expel non-whites from the UK? Does it have a program of military aggression? (Hard to imagine whom Britain could plausibly invade, these days.) Is it far-right in the economic-libertarian sense? Or in the angry-populist sense? Or in the traditional sense of supporting the monarchy, aristocracy and church? ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/5 "2004-05-26T20:21:03Z")
There really doesn’t seem much of an issue here. The Royal Mail is obligated as an organisation to deliver the leaflets, but individual postmen can refuse to do so - and good on them too. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could someone fill in us non-Brits? I’ve heard people compare this British National Party to the Nazis. I know the BNP is far-right, nationalist, hostile to immigration, and for pulling the UK out of the European Union, but that’s all I know. Does it really deserve to be characterized as Nazi or fascist or whatever? Does it want to expel non-whites from the UK? Does it have a program of military aggression? (Hard to imagine whom Britain could plausibly invade, these days.) Is it far-right in the economic-libertarian sense? Or in the angry-populist sense? Or in the traditional sense of supporting the monarchy, aristocracy and church? Frankly, I’m not terribly convinced that the BNP have a coherent ideology beyond hostility to immigration. Traditionally they did openly proclaim that they wanted all non-whites “sent back”, but in recent years their official line is that they want to “encourage” them to leave. Their economic policies are, unsurprisingly, isolationist. They also label themselves anti-globalisation and anti-capitalist, though it’s not clear that any great significance can be attributed to this. I’m not going to link to their website, but on the subject of the monarchy, it contains this choice statement: > [@](#): > > As a party of tradition, we see the one-thousand-year-old British Monarchy as an integral part of Britain’s heritage. We do, however, have no time for certain treacherous individuals currently associated with the Monarchy. We urge people to see the distinction between the institution of the Monarchy, and some of the people currently in the public eye, who pander quite unashamedly to the anti-British forces of political correctness. The bottom line is that they’re a populist anti-immigration party, many of whose members have neo-Nazi links and display a thinly disguised taste for violence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/6 "2004-05-26T20:24:40Z")
Are they anti-Semites too? ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/7 "2004-05-26T20:46:11Z")
Officially, of course not. Unofficially … For instance, their leader [has an ugly track record](http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/BNPholocaustdenial.htm). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/8 "2004-05-26T20:46:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are they anti-Semites too? No. But anti-semitism isn’t a big issue in the UK, compared with the USA. Basically, they’ll exploit whatever ill-founded fears and prejudices a local community have: In some areas they’ll canvass for the votes of Caribbean communities by playing up the ‘immigrants’ of Pakistani descent, and then in a Pakistani community they’ll play up the Somali ‘invasion’. They’re a horrible slippery chameleon, which makes them all the more dangerous, and also makes it easier for them to win votes from people who don’t actually understand their policies. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/9 "2004-05-27T05:59:22Z")
“Would you like to see Britannia rule again, my friend?” ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/10 "2004-05-27T11:24:47Z")
> [@](#): > > There really doesn’t seem much of an issue here. The Royal Mail is obligated as an organisation to deliver the leaflets, but individual postmen can refuse to do so - and good on them too. This is the problem: the company itself has a responsibility to deliver mail, but individuals can refuse. What if every postman decided that he didn’t want to deliver these leaflets? Who would deliver them? There should be no clauses in contracts relating to being able to pick and choose what to deliver. It’s up to me what I throw in the bin or pay any attention to, not postmen. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/11 "2004-05-27T11:33:23Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > Frankly, I’m not terribly convinced that the BNP have a coherent ideology beyond hostility to immigration. Traditionally they did openly proclaim that they wanted all non-whites “sent back”, but in recent years their official line is that they want to “encourage” them to leave. I don’t think it could be put any better than this; they are a mixed bag of racists, white nationalists and neo-nazis(in or out of the closet to varying degrees) - their blend of ideologies reflects this. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/12 "2004-05-27T11:35:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think it could be put any better than this By ‘this’, I mean **bonzer** ’s summary, not my follow-on. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/13 "2004-05-27T13:05:26Z")
I had no idea that " individual postmen can refuse to do so". Sounds fukin stupid and illegal to me. Can someone provide a cite that says my postman is within his rights to not deliver any particular bit of mail he doesnt like the look of. Maybe he should open it to check it is was upleasant as he thought. It would certainly explain why all the interesting / important letters go missing and yet the credit card / loan junk still keeps comming… sin ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/14 "2004-05-27T14:16:49Z")
> [@sinical brit](#): > > Can someone provide a cite that says my postman is within his rights to not deliver any particular bit of mail he doesnt like the look of. Maybe he should open it to check it is was upleasant as he thought. The cite is in the OP. And it’s not sealed mail that they’re talking about, but open leaflets. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/15 "2004-05-27T14:27:21Z")
> [@sinical brit](#): > > I had no idea that " individual postmen can refuse to do so". Sounds fukin stupid and illegal to me. Me too. Whatever the legality actually is my view is that if you have gone for a job as a postman, then you deliver everything in your bag whether you approve of it or not. There are elements of my job I don’t like. Sometimes when I write a computer program for a project, one of the deliverables of said project is a reduced headcount, which i think sucks. I hate that in a way i am contributing to someones redundancy. However I still do it, because I am employed by the company as a programmer, and my personal approval/disapproval of what im doing don’t matter squat. The only moral option available in this case would be to quit their jobs. all IMO of course. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/16 "2004-05-27T14:29:42Z")
OK, **One And Only Wanderers** - would you be happy to work on a contract for the BNP? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/17 "2004-05-27T14:36:57Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > OK, **One And Only Wanderers** - would you be happy to work on a contract for the BNP? No, (luckily that isn’t an issue for me as all the work i do is for the one company) and I do see your point, but it’s a slippery slope. What if it’s not BNP literature? It’s a rap cd, but the postie finds gangsta rap offensive so refuses to deliver? Personally I find the BNP offensive, but they still have the right to use the postal service the same as me. I still contest that you shouldn’t be able to cherry pick the parts of your job that you would like to do. You fulfill your employment contract or you quit. Anyone know what the relevant part of a postman’s contract actually states? If they have a contractual right to refuse to deliver mail they find offensive then I have no objection whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/18 "2004-05-27T14:47:49Z")
> [@One And Only Wanderers](#): > > There are elements of my job I don’t like. Sometimes when I write a computer program for a project, one of the deliverables of said project is a reduced headcount, which i think sucks. I hate that in a way i am contributing to someones redundancy. However I still do it, because I am employed by the company as a programmer, and my personal approval/disapproval of what im doing don’t matter squat. If you had a opt out clause in your contract you could. > [@](#): > > The only moral option available in this case would be to quit their jobs. Or they could try using their opt out clause. This really comes down to what the clause in their contract actually says and are they interpreting it correctly. If they are well they’re good to go or not as the case may be ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/19 "2004-05-27T14:48:56Z")
Missed your last post. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185/20 "2004-05-27T14:51:47Z")
I think we’re going to need a Royal Mail employee to quote the clause here; all I can find online is news references to this story, and BNP/Stormfront/etc comments on it. The BNP website is claiming they’re going to sue the CWU for mis-advising its members on whether the ‘conscience clause’ can be applied. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postmen-censor-bnp/247185.md?page=2)