# Pot vs. booze **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 2, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739 "2014-01-02T21:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/21 "2014-01-03T18:06:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I posted this thread based on the news images of people lined up outside of Colorado’s newly legalized pot stores and thought to myself… hmmm… that is NOT my demographic group. There didn’t appear to be a single lawyer, financier or doctor among them. One of the things you have to remember about the First Day stuff is that it was all public with a lot of media and cameras around. The people who wanted to buy some buy didn’t want to be on the news doing so were not standing in line that day. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/22 "2014-01-03T18:09:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yeah, I think ‘wine tastings’ look ridiculous. Can’t argue with you there, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/23 "2014-01-03T18:13:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > One of the things you have to remember about the First Day stuff is that it was all public with a lot of media and cameras around. The people who wanted to buy some buy didn’t want to be on the news doing so were not standing in line that day. Good point. Plus, how can you tell what anyone is when they’re all wearing winter gear? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/24 "2014-01-03T18:15:38Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > Not to assume these things don’t exist, but I have never heard of them: > > PA (Potsmokers Anonymous) Marijuana Anonymous is heavily advertised all over San Francisco. > [@](#): > > A non-intrusive roadside test for being under the influence of marijuana. [LAPD Targeting Stoned Drivers With Roadside Weed Tests](http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/dui_drug_test_los_angeles_weed.php) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/25 "2014-01-03T18:23:20Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Good point. Plus, how can you tell what anyone is when they’re all wearing winter gear? I don’t know about that. Saw a few folks in polar fleeces and surfer shorts. Figured it was a pot thing since there can’t be much surfing going on in Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/26 "2014-01-03T18:33:37Z")
David Brooks in an op-ed piece in today’s times claims that one pot user in six becomes addicted (anyone here have the data), that pot smoking and driving is dangerous that pot addicts suffer cognitive loss. Is there evidence for the last point? But what he doesn’t do is compare the harm pot can do with the harm that laws against it do. As for what looks silly and unsophisticated, well as many have commented here, that is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. And I would hope that there are better ways of consuming that by polluting the air with smoke. Hash brownies, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/27 "2014-01-03T18:36:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Someone who “over indulges” in cannabis (let’s assume it’s possible) falls asleep on my couch; possibly with a pizza crust in his shirt pocket and his hand in his pants. Someone who over indulges in ethanol _pukes_ on my couch, loses consciousness, and potentially winds up in the ER or morgue. It’s been a long time since I was in the society of people who smoked much pot, but that’s pretty accurate based on my recollection. I also remember that while I wouldn’t want to be a passenger of someone who was either drunk or high, if I had to choose one over the other, it would definitely be the high person. That said, there are outliers. Beck in college days, we had a friend who all of us said “Don, don’t smoke pot. Just don’t.” After a few drinks, Don was droll and erudite. But whenever he got the slightest bit high, he’d collapse into a quivering, shaking, laughing heap on the floor, completely incapacitated. At least he enjoyed it. Nobody else did. But, no puke, thank goodness. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/28 "2014-01-03T18:36:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Perhaps that would change my perception of a pot head. Is that a common way to consume pot? It could be soon, at least as common as seeing Jeff Spicolli walking around with a bong. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/29 "2014-01-03T18:40:57Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > David Brooks in an op-ed piece in today’s times claims that one pot user in six becomes addicted (anyone here have the data), that pot smoking and driving is dangerous that pot addicts suffer cognitive loss. Is there evidence for the last point? But what he doesn’t do is compare the harm pot can do with the harm that laws against it do. > > As for what looks silly and unsophisticated, well as many have commented here, that is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. And I would hope that there are better ways of consuming that by polluting the air with smoke. Hash brownies, anyone? I don’t know about the numbers, but it does seem to me that a minority of pot smokers become lifelong habituates and don’t seem to function well without a good daily dose. Pretty expensive habit, seems to me. I did hear of a fairly study (last two years?) that was allegedly very thorough, unbiased, and scientific, that showed that adolescents who were fairly heavy pot users had (scientifically) significant cognitive loss. If someone knows more about this I’d be interested. As someone who’s by nature a procrastinator already, I’m confident that a pot habit wouldn’t improve my quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/30 "2014-01-03T18:42:57Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > It could be soon, at least as common as seeing Jeff Spicolli walking around with a bong. On a different pot thread here, someone mentioned that bongs are rare these days, being considered unhygienic. I can’t comment, but that wouldn’t surprise me much. Give Jeff a “pinch hitter” instead. Better yet, a pot e-cig. That has to be the coming thing, avoiding the nasty smoke. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/31 "2014-01-03T18:52:12Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I don’t know about the numbers, but it does seem to me that a minority of pot smokers become lifelong habituates and don’t seem to function well without a good daily dose. Pretty expensive habit, seems to me. I do not care to go 24 hours without at least a puff or two. Expense? An ounce sets me back $100 (wholesale, long story). People generally pay double that. It lasts me around 30 days. So, roughly say $4 a day. A fancy coffee costs more. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/32 "2014-01-03T18:53:13Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > One of the things you have to remember about the First Day stuff is that it was all public with a lot of media and cameras around. The people who wanted to buy some buy didn’t want to be on the news doing so were not standing in line that day. According to The Daily Currant, [_already, on the first day of legal weed, there have been 37 fatal ODs, scores more expected_](http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/). note: the publication is named for produce ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/33 "2014-01-03T18:54:06Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > As someone who’s by nature a procrastinator already, I’m confident that a pot habit wouldn’t improve my quality of life. I’ve been meaning to research amotivational syndrome, but I just can’t be bothered.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![James\_Toothpaste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@James\_Toothpaste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Toothpaste)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/34 "2014-01-03T19:20:48Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > The social acceptance of alcohol, and rejection of pot, is a direct result of the fact that alcohol is legal and pot is not. It has nothing to do with the way you look while smoking. Cigarette smoking, which looks remarkably similar to smoking a joint, was considered to be cool and sophisticated for decades, and is only now losing some of its glamour because of increasingly harsh anti-smoking laws. Had Prohibition been a success, and remained the law, while pot smoking gained acceptance, we would be talking about how silly and juvenile alcohol drinkers look, and how smoking pot makes you look sophisticated. If the trend toward legalization of pot continues, eventually it will have a much more positive social connotation. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/35 "2014-01-03T19:49:31Z")
> [@For You](#): > > According to The Daily Currant, [_already, on the first day of legal weed, there have been 37 fatal ODs, scores more expected_](http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/). > > note: the publication is named for produce > [@](#): > > One of the those victims was 29-year-old Jesse Bruce Pinkman, a former methamphetamine dealer from Albuquerque who had recently moved to Boulder to establish a legal marijuana dispensary. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/36 "2014-01-03T20:01:29Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Marijuana Anonymous is heavily advertised all over San Francisco.[LAPD Targeting Stoned Drivers With Roadside Weed Tests](http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/dui_drug_test_los_angeles_weed.php) Thank you. Regarding the roadside test, from the article: > [@](#): > > The test is purely optional. You don’t have to take it. This would seem a little bit odd. In Canada, if a Constable requests that you provide a breath sample, you are obliged to provide it. > [@](#): > > You have to submit to a blood test if police tell you to do so (or face an instant, one-year suspension of your drivers license This also seems a bit odd, and had no real context in the article. Police can simply force a driver to submit to a blood test, or be punished? That’s outrageous. An awful lot of power for a police officer to wield. > [@](#): > > But so far there’s no law that says you have to take this mouth swab. Apparently, it’s the swab which is the test method? The article is a little weirdly put together. > [@](#): > > The science on cannabis intoxication is murky at this point. It can be hard to determine with accuracy whether someone has smoked within hours or within weeks Not that I necessarily would be, but considering the prevalence of PSAs regarding Drunk Driving, or Drinking and Driving in all forms of media, it’s odd that I’ve heard completely zero about there being some kind of problem with Stoned Driving, or Smoking and Driving. Has there been some rash of highway accidents, or increase in incidence of motor vehicle injuries/deaths directly related to marijuana use? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/37 "2014-01-03T20:10:23Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > David Brooks in an op-ed piece in today’s times claims that one pot user in six becomes addicted (anyone here have the data), that pot smoking and driving is dangerous that pot addicts suffer cognitive loss. Is there evidence for the last point? But what he doesn’t do is compare the harm pot can do with the harm that laws against it do. > > As for what looks silly and unsophisticated, well as many have commented here, that is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. And I would hope that there are better ways of consuming that by polluting the air with smoke. Hash brownies, anyone? The real question is not whether there is a risk of addiction from pot, because all recreational drugs (and indeed, anything pleasurable) creates a risk of addiction. the issue is how bad that risk is, comparatively. For addiction potential, pot ranks relatively low on the scale. Here’s a link to a PDF of an article entitled “Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse”, which was an attempt to create some sort of science-based assessment of harms caused by various drugs: [http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F6424313\_Development\_of\_a\_rational\_scale\_to\_assess\_the\_harm\_of\_drugs\_of\_potential\_misuse%2Ffile%2F3deec520f867c02046.pdf&ei=hRPHUuTvB8LbyQGes4DYCw&usg=AFQjCNEsKv7i0ODBso6\_LW9L7NIIsBcghg&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F6424313_Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse%2Ffile%2F3deec520f867c02046.pdf&ei=hRPHUuTvB8LbyQGes4DYCw&usg=AFQjCNEsKv7i0ODBso6_LW9L7NIIsBcghg&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc) If the link doesn’t work, google the title. On page 1051 of the article there is a table summarizing the results. Experts were surveyed (physicians and psychiatrists) to rate each drug for “physical harm”, “dependance” and “social harm” with a rating scale from 0 (no risk) to 3 (extreme risk). Each of those broad categories are split into three - for example, “dependence” is split into “pleasure”, “psychological dependance” and “physical dependence”. The results are interesting. The mean for “dependence” for pot is 1.5. That places it well below tobacco (2.2) and alchohol (1.9). Of that, only a very small percentage is “physical dependance” (0.8) in contrast with tobacco (1.8) and alcohol (1.6). Pot is simply not very physically addictive compared with legal drugs, although it can create psychological dependence. According to this scale, as the authors note, alcohol should rationally be treated as a “hard drug” along meth, barbituates, cocaine and heroin: > [@](#): > > So, if a three-category classifi cation were to be retained, one possible interpretation of our fi ndings is that drugs with harm scores equal to that of alcohol and above might be class A, cannabis and those below might be class C, and drugs in between might be class B. In that case, it is salutary to see that alcohol and tobacco—the most widely used unclassified substances—would have harm ratings comparable with class A and B illegal drugs, respectively. For driving while stoned being dangerous, I myself am pretty certain that is true. Driving while impaired in any way is dangerous. That pot addicts suffer cognitive loss, I have no idea. A lot depends on what one considers a “pot addict”. I would not be surprised if someone who was stoned more or less continually would suffer adverse effects from it, but such folks are rare. The article sited gives pot a “physical harm” rating of a mean of 1. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/38 "2014-01-03T20:14:46Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This is all just IMO/IME… but with a rum and coke, I know exactly what’s going to happen, and exactly when I’ve consumed that much. It’s never an accident when I get wasted on alcohol. Smoking pot is a very different matter. I can never be sure where I’m going to end up, I can’t be 100% exactly how much smoke has gotten in my lungs. Even if somebody tells me what the strain is, I have no way of predicting exactly what it’s going to do to me. I don’t worry too much about getting wasted as OD is not a concern. > > Perhaps legalization will bring some very pure, standardized product that can have predictable effects. I wouldn’t buy it though. > > So, long story short, I think accidentally getting hammered unfortunately is something that just goes along with toking up. this was always my objection. I was watching a news piece on a shop out west and the owner acted like all the different commodities he sold were precise in their potency. Enter the ATF with some kind of certification and ability to measure with a breathalizer and we have a new poison of choice. It would be interesting if mainstreaming this drug and keeping the cost down would wipe out the idiocy of meth, crack, heroine and other drugs that virtually destroy people’s ability to function. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/39 "2014-01-03T20:33:05Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > The social acceptance of alcohol, and rejection of pot, is a direct result of the fact that alcohol is legal and pot is not. I’m pretty sure it’s actually the other way around, historically. Alcohol was socially accepted, pot was not, hence “somebody made a law”. The main reason was that respectable white people imbibed alcohol, but Mexicans, blacks and other undesirables smoked pot. It boils down to, like many of our laws, classism, racism, and xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739/40 "2014-01-03T20:33:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It would be interesting if mainstreaming this drug and keeping the cost down would wipe out the idiocy of meth, crack, heroine and other drugs that virtually destroy people’s ability to function. It won’t. People can drink booze and smoke cigarettes, yet they still wanted pot. Don’t be mislead by the largely-artificial labelling of certain substances as “illegal drugs” into thinking they are in any way interchangeable for the users. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pot-vs-booze/677739.md?page=3)