# Potential "Cho"? I think they've gone too far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715 "2007-04-26T10:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/1 "2007-04-26T10:46:21Z")
This happened in my sleepy little town: [http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/04/24/news/local/doc462e92445e91a213996542.txt](http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/04/24/news/local/doc462e92445e91a213996542.txt) The student turned in a creative writing assignment that had lots of violent imagery, evidently. They haven’t released the essay to the public. Ok, I understand that people are a little nervous after the VA Tech shootings, but this is a straight “A” student. He wasn’t just reprimanded; he was _arrested_, fercrissakes. I’d like more information as to the kid’s demeanor. I find it hard to believe a kid who is pulling straight "A"s is skulking around in the shadows acting all disturbed and unbalanced. So, as to the debate; do you think it was prudent to have this kid arrested for writing a violent essay (albeit an obnoxious, prankish one)? Do we have to put everyone under the microscope because of one horrendous incident committed by a really disturbed guy? How would you have handled it if he was your student? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/2 "2007-04-26T10:53:24Z")
Just as understandable and just as effective as the running around in circles that beheaded chickens do. Think about all the suspicions innocent people had to undergo after 9/11 ! I remember a plane turning around mid ocean and flying back to france because a stewardess had noticed a japanese businessman murmuring the words “bomb” to himself. It turned out later he was trying to learn some English words by studying a newspaper. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/3 "2007-04-26T11:17:54Z")
It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/4 "2007-04-26T11:25:57Z")
Well, when the lawsuit is settled, this kid has his first year of college paid for! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/5 "2007-04-26T11:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=Staggerlee] It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter. [/QUOTE] No, the article specifically said no threats were made. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/6 "2007-04-26T11:41:42Z")
[QUOTE=Staggerlee] It’s hard to judge this without knowing exactly what he wrote. It sounds like appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction, but if he was making explicit threats to staff or students in his writing that would be quite a different matter. [/QUOTE] From the linked article: > [@](#): > > They said it contained no references to any students or the school and did not reference the recent killings at the Virginia Tech campus. > [@](#): > > An English teacher read the essay while grading creative writing assignments at the school after hours Monday, school officials and police said. > > “She was concerned based on things that have transpired recently. It raised some flags,” Puma said. “I think, in this case, the teacher chose to err on the side of caution and, I think, rightly so.” So, she grades the papers on Monday, but the police do not get brought in to arrest the kid until Tuesday. There is no (apparent) intervention by any member of the psych people associated with the district, just a “book 'em, Danno,” a court date, and further threats by the school: > [@](#): > > Lee has been removed indefinitely from the school and is facing disciplinary action, District 155 spokesman Jeff Puma said. He declined to elaborate further about what actions might be taken against the student. One statement in the story is clearly false: > [@](#): > > “You can never be overly cautious with any type of these situations,” Delelio said. When “cautious” turns into “brain dead,” it is possibly to be “overly cautious.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/7 "2007-04-26T11:58:16Z")
I’m sure the fact that the kid’s last name is “Lee” wasn’t lost on any of you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/8 "2007-04-26T11:59:42Z")
How many of us remember the fractured carole that goes: “Deck the Halls with Gasoline?” Unless you can prove to me that the work in question dealt with direct, personal threats - this is going too far. Certainly the first step **should** have been a psych evaluation, not arrest, dammit. And that’s if there’s any reason to actually do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/9 "2007-04-26T12:03:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] No, the article specifically said no threats were made. [/QUOTE] Sorry, my mistake. Then it is appalling paranoid censorship and over-reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/10 "2007-04-26T12:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] How many of us remember the fractured carole that goes: “Deck the Halls with Gasoline?” Unless you can prove to me that the work in question dealt with direct, personal threats - this is going too far. Certainly the first step **should** have been a psych evaluation, not arrest, dammit. **And that’s if there’s any reason to actually do anything**. [/QUOTE] Well, I don’t know the kid, but an “A” student, to me anyway, is probably socializing properly. He’s concentrating on a multitude of subjects in order to maintain those grades. He’s not the kid who’s obsessing or severely depressed. He’s probably a well-rounded kid. I’m guessing he was experimenting when he wrote that piece. He probably heard all the paranoia around him and decided to push the envelope. Were I the teacher, I probably would have rolled my eyes and maybe had a talk with him. From what I could gather from the article, he didn’t read it out loud in class. She was grading papers after school. It appears _she_ was the one with the overactive imagination. I tend to lean toward your last statement (bolding mine). ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/11 "2007-04-26T12:11:24Z")
Could someone explain to me how he could possibly be facing charges over writing an essay with violent references? Writing creatively in an unpopular way is a crime now? Surely this will be tossed out of court post-haste? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/12 "2007-04-26T12:18:29Z")
The VT shootings have spawned a cottage industry promoting and enshrining the Second Amendment, but we’re throwing out the First? I’m having some violent fantasies of my own. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/13 "2007-04-26T12:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Well, I don’t know the kid, but an “A” student, to me anyway, is probably socializing properly. He’s concentrating on a multitude of subjects in order to maintain those grades. He’s not the kid who’s obsessing or severely depressed. He’s probably a well-rounded kid. [/QUOTE] I quite agree. I wasn’t quite as articulate as I’d meant to be, it seems. I was trying to do two things: First to point out that there is often a lot of verbalizing of violence with teens and children, that doesn’t actually signify anything. The carole I’d mentioned was one I’d heard at, I think, every school I’d ever been to - it’s nominally a call to arson, but while I can think of scads of students who’ve sung it, I can’t think of a single school that’s been burned down. Unless I can read the paper in question, I’m not going to be convinced that anything a HS student turns in, as a one-time incident, is going to be signifigant in any meaningful way. If there’s a repeating theme of violence, that would be something else - but a single work? Gad, I’d have been locked up myself! Secondly, if the purpose of this action is to protect people, wouldn’t it make more sense to try to help the student, rather than hurting him with an arrest record? Especially since, whether one accepts it as an excuse or not, the sense of paranoia and isolation that Cho felt were contributing factors in his rampage? So - to prevent another kid from going off with guns, because he’s convinced everyone is out to get him, and that he can’t get along with anyone - let’s give him **evidence** to support the idea that everyone is out to get him? BTW - I’m not sure that the last name Lee means what you seem to think it does. Albert and Allen don’t seem very Asian, to my mind. I’m not saying that it’s impossible that the family is of Asian ancestry, just that I’m not sure it’s fair to assume that they are, either. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/14 "2007-04-26T12:32:35Z")
OOh, sorry for the double post but I had to respond to something I read in the linked article: > [@](#): > > was charged Tuesday morning after police determined that essay references to shootings were alarming. Police admitted no individuals were named or threatened. Okay, I’m going to type slowly so that the police in Illinois can keep up: Police in the United States _do not get to make that determination._ That’s it, really – there’s no real room for discussion. Absent specific threats, it doesn’t matter how alarmed the authorities are. They can _be_ alarmed all they want – but they cannot “determine” something is alarming and they cannot arrest someone for it. Tis was not a protective custody arrest – it did not take place immediately. It was purely punitive. They may _want_ to do that, but they _cannot_ do so in America. Where are all the Second Amendment zealots who want guns in case the government becomes a tyranny? They’re missing their big chance. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/15 "2007-04-26T12:45:12Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] Where are all the Second Amendment zealots who want guns in case the government becomes a tyranny? They’re missing their big chance. Sailboat [/QUOTE] I’m one, actually. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/16 "2007-04-26T12:51:23Z")
Photo [here](http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/392211.php?contentType=4&contentId=444709). Also from that article - The charge? "disorderly conduct"Disorderly conduct can be filed if someone’s actions alarm or disturb another enough to “provoke a breach of the peace,’’ McHenry County State’s Attorney Louis Bianchi said. “So far, we’re supportive’’ of the charge, he said.\<\\> Lee’s creative writing instructor — a first-year teacher — became so concerned when reading the essay Monday night that she called the Cary-Grove English Department chair, who then called the principal at home, said Community High School District 155 Supt. Jill Hawk. \<\\> Ed Yohnka, spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois, said that without knowing all the details of the essay, “You have to wonder whether [the charges were] an overreaction, given the events at Virginia Tech.’’ Normally, an essay done as homework would be “protected speech,’’ Yohnka said. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/17 "2007-04-26T13:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Papermache Prince] Photo [here](http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/392211.php?contentType=4&contentId=444709). [/QUOTE] Thanks for the photo. Doesn’t change my view: Lee as a surname doesn’t necessarily mean Asian descent. It does, however, reinforce the thinking that these are a bunch of racist idiots. In addition to all the other errors they’ve gone through. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/18 "2007-04-26T13:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] Thanks for the photo. Doesn’t change my view: Lee as a surname doesn’t necessarily mean Asian descent. It does, however, reinforce the thinking that these are a bunch of racist idiots. In addition to all the other errors they’ve gone through. [/QUOTE] I didn’t mean to imply that he was necessarily Asian…just that the majority of Lees that I have known are Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/19 "2007-04-26T13:51:24Z")
Also from **Papermache Prince** ’s link: “A Cary-Grove student who knows Lee described him as quiet and smart. “He was quiet, he wasn’t scary,” the student said.” Spoken in the past tense, almost as if Lee’s rampage and subsequent suicide have already happened! ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/20 "2007-04-26T14:12:33Z")
Unbelievable. I’d like to see the public reaction if the famous shooter and arrested innocent were both black. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715.md?page=2)