# Potential "Cho"? I think they've gone too far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715 "2007-04-26T10:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/61 "2007-04-28T17:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] We don’t know what the teacher-student interaction has been like over the year, at all. Judging from the student’s writing, I’d say it wasn’t very good. I’m sure this relationship isn’t the first to go sour between a teacher and a student. But obviously it broke down somewhere. The teacher didn’t feel comfortable confronting the student, and we don’t know the interaction between the parents and the school. I’d say this was beyond poor judgment. Here’s a kid, doing well in school, with a career aspiration to join the Marines, and he deposits this turd? That in itself is disturbing. In a field like the military, where they’re very concerned about people’s mental stability, this represents a choice of epically stupid proportions. If he was planning to head to college and get a creative writing degree, maybe I’d get it. (Ironically, this means I would probably not get het up over Cho as a high school student. But if all he ever wrote about was creepy murder stuff, then maybe I’d think something was up. Bottom line, the kid either needs help or his ass kicked. How you could submit a paper like that and not expect a shitstorm defies logic. Which would make him very poor at judging situations, stupid, or unstable. Not the sort of fellow you’d want lugging an M16 around. [/QUOTE] > **[Military Granting More Criminal Waivers](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-granting-more-criminal-waivers/?index=1)** > > Army, Marine Corps Allowing More Recruits With Felony Convictions To Join Up > [@](#): > > More recruits with criminal records, including felony convictions, are being allowed to join the Army and Marine Corps as the armed services cope with a dwindling pool of volunteers during wartime. > > The military routinely grants waivers to take in recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service. Most are moral waivers, which include some felonies, misdemeanors, and traffic and drug offenses. > > Defense Department statistics show that the number of Army and Marine recruits needing waivers for felonies and serious misdemeanors, including minor drug offenses, has grown since 2003. Some recruits may get more than one waiver. [http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/5255692/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/5255692/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news) > [@](#): > > SAN DIEGO – One of the country’s leading gang experts says gangs around the country are sending their members to the military to learn urban warfare. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/62 "2007-04-30T15:01:54Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] This is the same thing that happened after Columbine, and continues to happen now and then. What are we doing to make our schools safer, make sure people with mental and emotional problems get treatment, and keep guns away from potential killers? Well, there’s that Rachel’s Challenge thing, and we’ve cracked down real hard on creative writing! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I guess H. P. Lovecraft and Stephen King would be serving long prison terms or would have been confined to mental institutions if they were teenagers today! Imagine the reaction of teachers/school officials to their stories! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/63 "2007-04-30T16:14:52Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] > **[Military Granting More Criminal Waivers](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-granting-more-criminal-waivers/?index=1)** > > Army, Marine Corps Allowing More Recruits With Felony Convictions To Join Up [http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/5255692/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/5255692/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news) [/QUOTE] Word. Kid Kalhoun was going to join the Marines and not only did they supply the stuff that masks pot in your urine, but they were indeed going to give him a waiver. He actually need two waivers, but they wouldn’t do two at that time. WooHOO! He didn’t go! ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/64 "2007-04-30T22:31:32Z")
Does no one _talk_ to kids anymore? Is there no possible response between “ignore them if you’re not grading their homework” and “arrest them”? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/65 "2007-04-30T23:23:55Z")
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] We don’t know what the teacher-student interaction has been like over the year, at all. Judging from the student’s writing, I’d say it wasn’t very good. I’m sure this relationship isn’t the first to go sour between a teacher and a student. But obviously it broke down somewhere. The teacher didn’t feel comfortable confronting the student, and we don’t know the interaction between the parents and the school. I’d say this was beyond poor judgment. Here’s a kid, doing well in school, with a career aspiration to join the Marines, and he deposits this turd? That in itself is disturbing. In a field like the military, where they’re very concerned about people’s mental stability, this represents a choice of epically stupid proportions. If he was planning to head to college and get a creative writing degree, maybe I’d get it. (Ironically, this means I would probably not get het up over Cho as a high school student. But if all he ever wrote about was creepy murder stuff, then maybe I’d think something was up. Bottom line, the kid either needs help or his ass kicked. How you could submit a paper like that and not expect a shitstorm defies logic. Which would make him very poor at judging situations, stupid, or unstable. Not the sort of fellow you’d want lugging an M16 around. [/QUOTE] Until we hear that this kid has a reputation for writing creepy slasher horror and perhaps making creepy threatening comments at random as well, the only thing we can conclude from this is that the _teacher_ either needs help or to get her ass kicked. No student could reasonably expect that writing a piece of random fiction _where a fictional assignment was requested_ would get him arrested. Unless there is further suspicious history there that we haven’t heard about, the arrest was an entirely irrational reaction and no sensible human being could predict it. I’ve written first-person fiction wherin the main character (referred to as “I”, so it must have been me) interacted with individuals with fantastic and magical powers. Is the rational response to interrogate me about there whereabouts of such persons? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/66 "2007-04-30T23:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] Well, the school shooting aspect right after VA Tech seems almost deliberately provocative, but come on. [/QUOTE] Definitely provocative. I’ll bet no one anticipated that happening, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/67 "2007-05-01T02:05:15Z")
This kids deserves an A+. Seriously. You only have to look at the reactions to see how convincing he was. Stephen King would pay a million bucks to get arrested by a yokel cop for writing too scary, the publicity would be worth it. I think this kid has a big literary future. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/68 "2007-05-01T11:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I’m sure the fact that the kid’s last name is “Lee” wasn’t lost on any of you. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Is “Lee” a name which is only Asian? Because in Australia and NZ it is an English and asian name. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/69 "2007-05-01T12:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] Is “Lee” a name which is only Asian? Because in Australia and NZ it is an English and asian name. [/QUOTE] We went over this way upthread. It’s not strictly Asian in the US either, but in my experience, it is predominantly an Asian name. And as it turns out, he IS Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/70 "2007-05-02T00:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking] Is “Lee” a name which is only Asian? Because in Australia and NZ it is an English and asian name. [/QUOTE] Yes, the most famous early Asian American was Robert E. Lee. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/71 "2007-05-03T11:26:26Z")
**Deadly Accurate** , mind PM’ing your name? Your books sound like they may be the kind of stuff I enjoy. I find American Pie terribly disturbing. If I tell so to the american police, will they arrest everybody involved? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/72 "2007-05-03T23:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Now that the details are coming out, while the school may still be overreacting, the kid’s essay was almost deliberately provocative. I’d have given it a flunking grade, called him & his parents in for a talk, and hopefully that would have settled it. [/QUOTE] If it was capable of evoking such fear and dangerous imagery wouldn’t that make it an example of at least fairly effective writing/storytelling despite the violent content. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715/73 "2007-05-05T13:54:26Z")
A total hijack aside but visavis the comments of “He’s a straight A student!” … My mother-in-law called the other week. Seems a kid jumped off the roof of the local High School where my wife had gone, back in the day. “But he was a straight A student, accepted to a good school and everything!” Good students can be stressed tudents, can be disturbed students, can be mentally ill students, can be suicidal students. The moment the teacher or administrator thought “Well he’s _probably_ just being provocative and a smart-ass with poor taste … but am I sure?” (“99% sure it is chalk dust.”) was the moment that their minds went to the possibility of being wrong, however small, and not being sure enough. Handled poorly, no doubt. But as someone who has been asked to decide if a kid really is of suicidal or violent intent or just mouthing off, I can tell you the fear of being wrong in your asessment looms large. Even when if you are “99%” sure. Yeah, the right thing would have been for the school administrator to have called kid and family in and if reassured by that interview maybe even still insist on a psych eval and clearance as well for the CYA aspect. Maybe even out of school until such was accomplished. But to be glibly sure that he’s really no risk because he gets good grades? Unwarranted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-cho-i-think-theyve-gone-too-far/401715.md?page=3)