# Potential North Korean coup attempt **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 3, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318 "2014-10-03T23:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/1 "2014-10-03T23:47:38Z")
Oh please oh please oh please oh please be true. > **[Pyongyang Under Lockdown: Report](https://www.ibtimes.com/north-korea-lockdown-pyongyang-reportedly-closed-amid-possible-kim-jong-un-coup-attempt-1698980)** > > The North Korean capital is reportedly under lockdown, sparking speculation of a coup against Kim Jong Un or high-level defections. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779139/Has-Kim-Jong-Un-lost-control-North-Korea-Nation-s-former-intelligence-officer-says-overthrown-2013-just-puppet-leader.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779139/Has-Kim-Jong-Un-lost-control-North-Korea-Nation-s-former-intelligence-officer-says-overthrown-2013-just-puppet-leader.html) Of course even if it happens it could be a ‘meet the new boss same as the old boss’ situation. People had hope Jong Un wouldn’t be a total douche nozzle and he was, I’m guessing that pattern will continue. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/2 "2014-10-04T01:17:11Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Of course even if it happens it could be a ‘meet the new boss same as the old boss’ situation. People had hope Jong Un wouldn’t be a total douche nozzle and he was, I’m guessing that pattern will continue. Most likely. And what with how messed up that regime is, one can’t discount someone even \*worse \*taking over. As in just as evil, but more clever and intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/3 "2014-10-04T01:33:46Z")
Just about everything that I am reading now is quoting a single person, who is an ex-official. I’m not saying that there is nothing happening but I am not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/4 "2014-10-04T02:58:26Z")
Yeah, it’s worth noting that North Korea’s problems are not just one crazy guy. Indeed, he’s pretty much irrelevent. There is an enormous system of high-level officials who make their bread and butter off the current system, and they are the one who really call the shots. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/5 "2014-10-04T11:12:58Z")
High level NK Generals cross the border unexpectedly–talk re-unification. > **[High-Ranking North Korean Officials Visit South Korea for Rare Talks](https://abcnews.go.com/International/high-ranking-north-korean-officials-visit-south-korea/story?id=25961720)** > > North Korea's three officials closest to its leader Kim Jong-un made a surprise visit to South Korea on Saturday, signaling an ease of tensions on the Korean Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/6 "2014-10-04T16:54:32Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > High level NK Generals cross the border unexpectedly–talk re-unification South Korea as a whole chokes down on what it was eating and says “Gee, you guys don’t have to do that…” ---
**Author:** ![QuarkChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c5a1d2/32.png) [@QuarkChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuarkChild)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/7 "2014-10-04T18:26:17Z")
I just read a fascinating and relatively current book on NK called The Impossible State. It pointed out that both SK and China have reasons not to want reunification. China exploits NK minerals (molybdenum, iron ore, etc. IIRC) under favorable terms, for example. Also, it obviously does not want an unstable political situation in a country that shares a border (refugees, etc.) In the case of SK, the different in GDP is so great between the two countries that reunification would be an order of magnitude more difficult than the reintegration of East & West Germany. Overall, the author seemed pessimistic about possible reforms in NK. Even with new leadership, the need of the authorities to exert total control on the populace work against potential economic reforms / liberalization, and to the extent that there has been any liberalization (toleration of black markets / street vendors), it has been due to necessity (government running out of rationed goods), not desire on the part of the government to transition to a market economy. Anyway, very interesting book. I recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/8 "2014-10-04T18:43:53Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > High level NK Generals cross the border unexpectedly–talk re-unification. There’s no indication that re-unification was discussed. The South Korean Unification Ministry is tasked with (among other things) dialogue between the Koreas. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/9 "2014-10-04T21:04:27Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > There’s no indication that re-unification was discussed. The South Korean Unification Ministry is tasked with (among other things) dialogue between the Koreas. Google the story. Lots of input. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/10 "2014-10-04T21:52:43Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Google the story. > Lots of input. I read the story you linked. There was no mention in that story that reunification was discussed. If you have stories from reliable sources that indicate reunification was seriously discussed by the the (supposed) numbers 2 and 3 in North Korean government in a meeting that was closed to the press, please provide links to them. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/11 "2014-10-05T15:08:17Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Most likely. And what with how messed up that regime is, one can’t discount someone even \*worse \*taking over. As in just as evil, but more clever and intelligent. This would be my fear. What if Kim Jog Un is deposed because his generals wanted to invade South Korea, and he wasn’t willing to green light it? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/12 "2014-10-05T15:11:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I read the story you linked. There was no mention in that story that reunification was discussed. If you have stories from reliable sources that indicate reunification was seriously discussed by the the (supposed) numbers 2 and 3 in North Korean government in a meeting that was closed to the press, please provide links to them. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/north-korean-officials-pay-surprise-visit-to-the-south/2014/10/04/383e76f1-f39c-4c10-9889-12bfce88e150\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/north-korean-officials-pay-surprise-visit-to-the-south/2014/10/04/383e76f1-f39c-4c10-9889-12bfce88e150_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/13 "2014-10-05T15:13:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I read the story you linked. There was no mention in that story that reunification was discussed. If you have stories from reliable sources that indicate reunification was seriously discussed by the the (supposed) numbers 2 and 3 in North Korean government in a meeting that was closed to the press, please provide links to them. [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/north-korea-south-korea-officials-hold-rare-meeting-article-1.1963374](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/north-korea-south-korea-officials-hold-rare-meeting-article-1.1963374) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/14 "2014-10-05T17:01:28Z")
Bosda, did you even read the stories? “The specific topics of Saturday’s discussions weren’t immediately known.” Doesn’t mean “They talked about reunification!” There was mention of opening further dialogue, easing tensions, and hope for future exchanes and cooperation. There was nothing about reunifying in those articles. Tearing down a wall doesn’t mean reunifying either. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/15 "2014-10-05T18:46:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Oh please oh please oh please oh please be true. I saw some stories relating to this on another site on Friday too, but that site has a history of posting some fake-but-almost-believable news. There are multiple reliable sources with different points of origin chiming in now. > [@Diceman](#): > > This would be my fear. What if Kim Jog Un is deposed because his generals wanted to invade South Korea, and he wasn’t willing to green light it? Or… what if some generals wanted war, dug those tunnels, and he’s actually trying to stop it? I can’t tell who stopped who from what I’m reading, but it looks like this is the order to me: Tunnels. > **[Is North Korea still digging tunnels to the South? | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/north-korea-dmz-tunnels/index.html)** > > Gen. Hahn Sung-Chu never believed North Korea could dig a tunnel that reached Seoul – until now. Attempt to stop an invasion from high levels inside. > **[North Korea capital 'under lockdown' amid rumours of threat to Kim Jong-un](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11138105/North-Korea-capital-under-lockdown-amid-rumours-of-threat-to-Kim-Jong-un.html)** > > Travel ban triggers renewed speculation about stability of regime of Kim Jong-un Success at pulling larger risks off-line. > **[North Korea May Have Shut Down Nuclear Reactors: Think Tank](https://sputnikglobe.com/20141005/North-Korea-May-Have-Shut-Down-Nuclear-Reactors-Think-Tank-193687150.html)** > > North Korea may have partially or completely stopped the operation of its nuclear facility in Yongbyon, satellite pictures analyzed by a US think-tank appear to show, Reuters reported. Some light Fall tourism. [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/asia/north-korean-aides-south-games-kim-jong-un.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/asia/north-korean-aides-south-games-kim-jong-un.html) Some small steps that could lead to understanding. [http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/korean\_peninsula/AJ201410050022](http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/korean_peninsula/AJ201410050022) There is clearly something going on, but until we’re sure who wanted to invade & who pulled (or is trying to pull) the plug on it, we’d probably better avoid singing inflamatory stuff like, _“Kim-Un! The Glitsche is dead! The Dickhead Glitsche! (He’s now a Litch…!) Kim-Un, the Dickhead Glitsche is Dead…!”_ ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/16 "2014-10-05T22:24:36Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I saw some stories relating to this on another site on Friday too, but that site has a history of posting some fake-but-almost-believable news. > There are multiple reliable sources with different points of origin chiming in now. > > Or… what if some generals wanted war, dug those tunnels, and he’s actually trying to stop it? I can’t tell who stopped who from what I’m reading, but it looks like this is the order to me: > > Tunnels. > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/north-korea-dmz-tunnels/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/north-korea-dmz-tunnels/index.html) > > Attempt to stop an invasion from high levels inside. > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11138105/North-Korea-capital-under-lockdown-amid-rumours-of-threat-to-Kim-Jong-un.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11138105/North-Korea-capital-under-lockdown-amid-rumours-of-threat-to-Kim-Jong-un.html) > > Success at pulling larger risks off-line. > [North Korea May Have Shut Down Nuclear Reactors: Think Tank - 05.10.2014, Sputnik International](http://en.ria.ru/world/20141005/193687150/North-Korea-May-Have-Shut-Down-Nuclear-Reactors-Think-Tank.html) > > Some light Fall tourism. > [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/asia/north-korean-aides-south-games-kim-jong-un.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/asia/north-korean-aides-south-games-kim-jong-un.html) > > Some small steps that could lead to understanding. > [http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/korean\_peninsula/AJ201410050022](http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/korean_peninsula/AJ201410050022) > > There is clearly something going on, but until we’re sure who wanted to invade & who pulled (or is trying to pull) the plug on it, we’d probably better avoid singing inflamatory stuff like, > > _“Kim-Un! The Glitsche is dead! > The Dickhead Glitsche! (He’s now a Litch…!) > Kim-Un, the Dickhead Glitsche is Dead…!”_ Not to dispute that there’s something going on in the Koreas, but something in your first link makes me question the accuracy of claims of recent tunnel digging. > [@](#): > > Hahn says residents had complained of underground vibrations, but the subway does not run beneath them. > He says dowsers detected three tunnels, 13 to 16 feet (4 to 5 meters) wide at a depth of up to 39 feet (12 meters). His team drilled two bore holes to lower a camera, but before they could, they detected two underground explosions and their drill holes were blocked. Hahn is certain that North Korean soldiers were working beneath their feet, protecting the tunnel. Dowsers? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/17 "2014-10-05T23:09:27Z")
Typical story on North Korea. No one knows anything, so they just speculate wildly, and somehow this becomes news. Gosh, maybe Kim Jong-Un made a secret trip to China at their firm insistence, refused to show the proper fealty that his father and grandfather did, and they busted him up and broke his ankles , then sent him home to teach the North Koreans a lesson. About as plausible as half the stories that come out of there. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/18 "2014-10-06T00:52:35Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Dowsers? :dubious: Ka-Powsers!? Wowzers…! 😃 (Hey, NY Post, you owe me money if you lift this…) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/19 "2014-10-06T16:36:44Z")
If there was a coup I’m assuming that the next news about it will be that Kim died while being operated on for his health problems. We will see. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318/20 "2014-10-06T17:36:57Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If there was a coup I’m assuming that the next news about it will be that Kim died while being operated on for his health problems. We will see. I have this horrible yet oddly-compelling image of him in some foreign hospital, and being accidentally switched with Rob Ford… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/potential-north-korean-coup-attempt/700318.md?page=2)