But if he really were, wouldn’t he stand up for what he believes in, say his piece and then resign? Acting as a reluctant “YES” man does nothing to enhance his reputation.
Even men of principle do something they later regret. I imagine Mr. Powell has often thought that is exactly what he should have done. Or perhaps he thought if he did resign, then the Cheney-Rumsfeld wing would find a stooge to take his place.
Yes, he might think of himself of as a voice of moderation, and worries about what they’ll do in his absence.
It’s a fine line, though, between fearing a stooge and staying and being a stooge yourself.
The day Powell testified in front of the UN [is testified the right word?] I was taken in because I believed he had integrity. That’s what I remember. It was Powell, and so what he said had real validity for me. Even though he was not of my political stripe, I respected him and trusted that he had the best interests of this country at heart.
A friend who hadn’t been able to watch asked me, “What did you think? Do they have the proof?” And I said, God help me, “Yeah, they do. Powell convinced me.” I was convinced that they had more, much more, that they couldn’t share with the general public. I bought the damn story hook, line, and sinker. I look back now and think, what a fool.
Powell may have been a ‘good guy’ but he sold us all out when he mouthed the lies, which he had to know were lies, and when he compellingly sold the world a bill of goods.
What was he thinking? Could he have actually believed the truth would never come to light? I guess he really is a good soldier, falling on the grenade for the good of the unit, but he seems to have lost sight of the bigger picture, the fact that the real ‘unit’ is the entire country, not the Bush administration.
I have to agree with rjung here. If we assume* that lies were fabricated or the truth grossly distorted, then Powell could have caused the house of cards to tumble down by a vociferous resignation. I find it hypocritical for the Bush-bashers on this board to give Powell a pass on this.
*And I put an “if” there because I don’t buy into the whole lying conspiracy theory although I know most of the Bush-bashers here do.
I guess I’m not giving him a pass. He’s a big boy and will ultimately take the hit for accepting this position in this administration. But in fairness to him, I think the soldier’s mentality is probably too deeply ingrained for him to just up and abandon his post.
He is there to serve his president (albeit in a different capacity than he did in the military). I’ve never considered this a particularly smart or productive mindset. Ollie North comes to mind. Blind obedience serves no one in the long run. Hell, those soldiers who humiliated the Iraqi prisoners were supposedly “following orders”, too.
When all is said and done, I think Powell will be remembered as a great general and public servant, and this particular chapter won’t be the one that defines his life.
But I bet he kicks himself every day for taking this job!
If I count as a Bush-basher, I don’t give Powell a pass on this. I had my fill of him during the gays in the military thing when he was Joint Chiefs Chairman. He publically opposed the view of the President using exactly the same arguments that were used 40 years earlier when Truman desegregated the armed forces.
As a commanding officer, if Powell’s Adjutant had gone around opposing one of his directives in public I believe the Adjutant would have been brought up on charges of insubordination, which I think should have happened to Powell. It seems to me that Clinton was just too insecure in military matters to do it.
Powel had a right to oppose the directive. However, the proper thing for him in that case was to argue strenuously in private and if that fails, resign and go public. Such a strong stand doesn’t seem to be in his makeup.
I should have said “some Bush-bashers” instead of “the Bush-bashers”. I didn’t mean to paint with a broad brush.
I think it is safe to assume that: If Bush lied, then Powell lied.
hhmm... I would have to agree with John and rjung. Powell just let things happen... and once more civilians led the military into something without a clear exit strategy. My view of Powell is changing with what has been told here. "Giving him the pass" isn't right.I’ll give Powell a pass until it is shown that he knew he was lying rather than repeating lies told to him. It seems to me that Powell was so far outside the decision loop that he did not have all the intelligence at his disposal.
“I can’t say this, this is bullshit!”
–Colin Powell on the intelligence information he was to present at the United Nations
Even if you allow that he was misinformed, it appears that he already had some inkling beforehand that the justifications for the Iraq war were flimsy.
And as mailman wrote above, it was Powell’s own presentation that convinced a lot of fence-sitters to support the war. The White House took advantage of Colin’s credibility, and he did nothing to stop it.
Interestingly, I had never read a “profile” of Powell before this thread appeared, yet I had come to almost exactly the same opinion that Spavined Gelding had posted, based on individually reported events in Powell’s career.
I suspect that he is a guy with a strong sense of personal integrity, but that part of his personality is that of being a “good soldier” who follows orders.
Did he really think that he would be able to keep the adminmistration from careering out of control in Iraq? I dunno. I suspect that he simply felt the it was not appropriate for the Secretary of State to “abandon” the president. (Among his other readings in preparation for accepting the SoC job should have been a biography of Cyrus Vance.)
Powell is even worse than the Neocons on the Administration. At least the neocons believe the bullshit they spew. Powell knows its bullshit yet he still sticks around. If he had the courage of his convictions, he would have resigned in protest and gone on every talk show on TV denouncing Bush. Imagine the impact that could have had, or even still could have if he did it know.
Of course you were taken in. That’s why they sent Powell.
That and their affirmative action lying policy. Which is a policy long overdue with the superabudance of black Judges, soul and integrity in movies and TV. And my, hasn’t Condi Rice had a lot of exposure because of it. It’s one reason to support this administration.
What do you mean “falling on the grenade.” He will most likely live out the rest of his life, full of honors and on lots of Boards of Directors, and finally be gathered to his Fathers to the paeans of praise from the high and mighty.
To my everlasting shame, I was taken in, fooled, duped, whatever you want to call it. I have no explaination for why my usual skepticism failed me.
Powell’s credibility is shot. Any future he may have had as an elder statesman, or candidate, or pundit, was damaged beyond repair.
By definition then should we consider many Republican Congressmen and Senators in the same light ? Many knew it was Bullshit and voted along. To be fairer many democracts too voted for the Iraq War. I know politicians are a spineless breed… but if we consider Powell a scum for not standing up to Bush… then so should we consider many that knowingly voted for Iraq ?
To be even fairer than that, what was voted for wasn’t the war, but the continuation of the UN process with war only if that failed. Bush didn’t give it a chance to fail, though.
OK then… even if the vote wasn’t for War. No GOP politicians have come out against Bush ?
Some have expressed reservations about certain aspects of the war, especially with the torture stories now inescapable. A few have come out in favor of Rumsfeld’s resignation, and a few others too. But you won’t find any publicly calling for Bush’s departure, not in a system where one’s own re-electability depends on party support that would be withdrawn from any pol who dares to oppose its nominee. But the limited criticism we’ve seen so far speaks pretty strongly, considering that. What we’re hearing about Powell (the subject of the thread) isn’t criticism of his actions, since they haven’t had any effect, but actual pity.