# Powell/Rice in 2008: Unstoppable?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 5, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824 "2003-06-05T14:13:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/1 "2003-06-05T14:13:24Z")
GWB is going to be the Rep nominee for 2004 so it’s too lte for that. But barring a constitutional ammendement in the near future, the 2008 nomination is wide open.
If hell froze over and Powell decided to run for the POTUS and if he took Condoleeza Rice as his runing mate\*, put Rove behind the campaign, would there be any combo from the Democratic side who could keep the election from being an outright slaughter?
This seems to be a good idea for the Reps to maintain their grip on power.
Could the Dems even slow it down?
\*or Rice/Powell
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### Author:  [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/2 "2003-06-05T14:21:05Z")
Powell/Rice would get murdered at the polls. First of all, there’s a lot of racism in this country. Second, there’s a lot of sexism. Third, there’s prejudice in favor of married people and VP. Also, neither of them has ever run for elective office. Although both have had a certain amount of executive experience, neither has held an office nearly as challenging as President. (Of course, very few candidates have had such experience.)
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### Author:  [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/3 "2003-06-05T14:22:49Z")
Maybe if they were Democrats it might work…
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/4 "2003-06-05T14:26:14Z")
I’d love to see that ticket. We discussed it a lot in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180226&highlight=hillary) just a short while ago.
Unfortunately, Powell will be a bit “long in the tooth” so to speak by the time '08 rolls around.
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### Author:  [@SwimmingwithChickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingwithChickens)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/5 "2003-06-05T14:32:29Z")
I’d have to agree with december.
Unfortunately I think a female candidate might have a tougher go then an african american candidate in the 2008 elections for two reasons (that is a woman getting elected as a republican VP/POTUS):
1.) The biggest problem would come from the far right (my opinion). The Christian Coalition has an uber strong grip on traditional gender roles. That is the woman should be at home raising the kids. While this might not be an issue for Rice per se, the image of a powerful woman in charge of the United States would kind of hamper the image of the common house wife homeschooling the kids. Perhaps this is just my perception, but I’d think that the CC wouldn’t want a woman in charge.\*
2.) If Rice ran it would open the door for Hillary (though I think she might already be set on running anyway) so then the female edge becomes a wash.
While I think Powell is a great commander and a wonderful spokesman, do we really know much about his broader political views? Sure he’s a republican, but there’s a world of difference between a CC republican and a moderate republican (are there any out there anymore???)
- Remember the last time a woman made a decision in the bible she ended up getting herself and Adam kicked out of Eden! /sarcasm hat off.
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/6 "2003-06-05T14:55:36Z")
I think that the possibility of having an “African-American” and a woman in office could mobilize many who’re currently apathetic. I also think that many people who habitually vote Democratic would be eager to vote for these people.
I don’t believ that this ticket’ll ever see the light of reality.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/7 "2003-06-05T14:56:28Z")
I don’t think the issues of racism and sexism would be as significant as is being claimed. However, trying to predict how they’d fare in 2008 is a fool’s game. It’s impossible to predict what will happen in 2004.
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/8 "2003-06-05T14:59:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RickJay \*
> \*\* However, trying to predict how they’d fare in 2008 is a fool’s game. It’s impossible to predict what will happen in 2004. \*\*
It’s not a wager, just a game.
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### Author:  [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/9 "2003-06-05T15:01:13Z")
They’d never carry the South, even if they do run as Republicans. There’s still alot of racism down here. The scene from “Blazing Saddles” where the little old lady brings Cleavon Little the pie and then says “Of course, you’ll have the common courtesy not to tell anyone I brought this to you,” isn’t far off the mark.
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### Author:  [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/10 "2003-06-05T15:13:21Z")
I think that **December** and **plnnr** are both correct.
The interesting thing is that while I generally vote democrat, I always said that if Powell ran, I would vote for him. And I really meant that…until recently. I can’t help but feel that his integrity has been diminished by his actions with the current administration, notably the UN WMD speech. Such a shame.
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### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/11 "2003-06-05T15:17:23Z")
My experience here in th eSouth isn’t the same as **plnnr** ’s. There is quite a bit of racism if you know where to look for it. i’m not sure that’d be enough to swing things against the Powell/Rice ticket.
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/12 "2003-06-05T16:03:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \*
> \*\*Maybe if they were Democrats it might work… \*\*
I disagree. I think the only way a black or female candidate can get elected is as a Republican, for a number of reasons:
1. Looking like a centrist. Most politicians who are female and/or black are Democrats. A Republican woman or African-American won’t likely be perceived as a right-winger.
2. Cross-over voting. I think some Democrats would vote Republican if it meant voting for a woman or African-American. I don’t think the same can be said about many Republicans.
3. Viable alternatives. Who else would a Republican vote for?
But this is moot, I think. A woman or black candidate would be more likely to survive the primaries in the Democratic party, and less likely to win the general election. The opposite is true (again, IMO) in the Republican party.
Julie
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### Author:  [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/13 "2003-06-05T16:21:09Z")
I think Julie is correct here.
Powell/Rice would have considerable appeal to centrists and African Americans. Problem is these are not the habitual voters in the Republican primaries.
As a former resident of New Hampshire, the first test, I can tell you they would lose hands down there. NH has one of the smallest black populations in the country and isn’t likely to be kind to Powell or Rice.
Powell and Rice would have a better chance with a different Republican party. With Republicans controlling both houses and the presidency they aren’t likely up to ideological compromise. I can imagine a beaten down Republican party on a losing streak pushing this type of ticket as an answer to a strong Democratic party. That, alas, is not the case in the present environment.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/14 "2003-06-05T17:15:06Z")
If Dubya somehow gets re-elected in 04, Jeb will make sure he’s in the same position for the GOP nomination in 07 as Dubya was in '99. Powell won’t run against him. Jeb _could_ possibly choose Condi as his running mate. But isn’t she pro-choice? If so, she would help Jeb with the center, but hurt him with the base.
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### Author:  [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/15 "2003-06-05T17:22:14Z")
From conversations with a lifelong friend, I’d disagree with **fruitbat** on the appeal to blacks. This is based on the negative things said about Powell/Rice from notables in the black community, and what my friend, a black democrat, says. He told me he would never vote for a black republican, for in his words he finds it “morally reprehensible” for a black man to be a republican.
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### Author:  [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/16 "2003-06-05T17:27:11Z")
Well, how likely is it that the same person would vote for a white republican? I’m thinking race isn’t the deciding factor, there.
As far as Powell/Rice goes, It’d be encouraging to see such a ticket, but I doubt very much we will see it by 2008.
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### Author:  [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/17 "2003-06-05T17:32:03Z")
BF
I agree with you as far as to say that a Powell/Rice ticket would not command a majority of the black vote. They would undoubtedly command a larger percentage of the black vote than Dubya, Bush, Reagan and previous GOP candidates have.
Also remember my other point. There are relatively few African Americans registered with the GOP. So even if they were to draw a significant percent of that vote it wouldn’t matter much in the primaries.
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### Author:  [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/18 "2003-06-05T18:28:22Z")
**fruitbat** wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> They would undoubtedly command a larger percentage of the black vote than Dubya, Bush, Reagan and previous GOP candidates have.
Very true. I wonder if the number of new black voters brought to the P/R side would offset the number of “race based” republicans turned off by an all black ticket? Or would it matter if they don’t get any southern democrats?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/19 "2003-06-05T20:48:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \*
> \*\*I disagree. I think the only way a black or female candidate can get elected is as a Republican, for a number of reasons:
>
> 1. Looking like a centrist. Most politicians who are female and/or black are Democrats. A Republican woman or African-American won’t likely be perceived as a right-winger.
>
> 2. Cross-over voting. I think some Democrats would vote Republican if it meant voting for a woman or African-American. I don’t think the same can be said about many Republicans.
>
> 3. Viable alternatives. Who else would a Republican vote for?
>
> But this is moot, I think. A woman or black candidate would be more likely to survive the primaries in the Democratic party, and less likely to win the general election. The opposite is true (again, IMO) in the Republican party.
>
> Julie \*\*
Julie: I think you got it about 99% right. The one point you missed is that while Powell and Rice are or are perceived to be close to the moderate wing of the GOP, I can’t think of any black women legislators who are not or are not perceived to be pretty far to the left in the Democratic party.
As for racism in the south (or elsewhere) I think the net effect would be zero or positive for Powell/Rice **unless** a 3rd party candidate like Buchanan came into the picture to give the white racists an alternative.
n.b.: I would consider blacks voting for Powell simply because of his race to be racist just as I would consider whites to be racist for opposing him simply because of his race. That’s what I meant in the first sentence of the preceding paragraph.
Anyway, I stick by my statement about Powell’s age in '08 (he’ll be 71) being a killing point for his candidacy. Rice, on the other hand, has many good years ahead of her. I see her going thru a governorship, hopefully here in CA, before seeking VP or P office.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powell-rice-in-2008-unstoppable/179824/20 "2003-06-06T00:14:12Z")
Don’t forget the pro-choice thing. I can’t see the pubs nominating an all pro-choice ticket (or even a partial one).
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