# Powerful article! - "Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179 "2011-09-04T19:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/61 "2011-09-04T23:47:47Z")
> [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > United States -OBAMA CARE, payoffs, exemptions, corruption > Be not afraid. > Here sir, Your number is 106. Farout man! cough, hack, moan. Ding, Calling number 7, calling number 7. Oh crap! A very compelling argument you’ve posed there. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/62 "2011-09-04T23:48:11Z")
> [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > United States -OBAMA CARE Obamacare doesn’t start until 2014. Care to take another swing? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/63 "2011-09-04T23:51:20Z")
> [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > And in those countries everyone works. I don’t see a Marxist/Socialist country in the list except maybe the United States under Obama where 50% of the working age population don’t work. We’re still waiting for you to back up your first outrageous claim, but what the hell… Cite? > [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > BDD, Detroit did it, not Obama’s deaf, dumb, and blind FBI and $14.8M is 5000 times smaller than $60B Bush’s FBI estimate. More like 4,000 times. But you’re only off by 25%, so you may be getting closer. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/64 "2011-09-04T23:51:41Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Do you propose devastating taxes for the poor, or disenfranchisement? Practically speaking, I think the solution is that everyone will vote and everyone should pay **some** non-trivial income tax. Did I say devestating anywhere? If I did, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/65 "2011-09-04T23:53:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Justg what I thought; that is a very dishonest interpretation of that poll. Since post-graduates favor Democrats (by a large margin), you have ignored them, even though they are also college graduates. If you factor in the post-graduates, those with a college education identify as Democrats 51% to 48%. I don’t think you’re doing the math right – the link spells out that Post-Graduate study was a considerably smaller percentage than College Graduate, which is presumably why the next breakdown on the list has No College Degree (folding in the No High School demographic that preferred Kerry over Bush) favoring Bush over Kerry at 53/47 while having College Degree split 49/49: that last bit obviously isn’t a simple restatement of Bush’s aforementioned 52/46 edge among mere college grads. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/66 "2011-09-04T23:53:57Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Practically speaking, I think the solution is that everyone will vote and everyone should pay **some** non-trivial income tax. Did I say devestating anywhere? > > If I did, sorry. But payroll and state taxes don’t count? Why doesn’t payroll tax count as “some non-trivial” income tax for this purpose? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/67 "2011-09-05T00:03:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > More college graduates identify as Republicans than Democrats while the reverse is true for high school dropouts. Your own cite shows high-school dropouts voting Kerry over Bush by the huge margin of 50-49. Postgrads favored Kerry over Bush 55-44 at your link. And if “college graduates” are defined to _ **include** _ the postgrad category, then Kerry was favored among college graduates as well. Your cite is repudiated. My follow-on question for you, **Qin Shi Huangdi** is: Will you admit to finding the facts surprising here? Or are you instead going to hunt for some wriggle-out? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/68 "2011-09-05T00:16:25Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And if “college graduates” are defined to _ **include** _ the postgrad category, then Kerry was favored among college graduates as well. I don’t think that’s quite right — at least if the second “Vote by Education” breakdown, no college degree v. college degree, is correct. That seems to indicate that neither Kerry nor Bush were favored among college graduates. Bush, however, _was_ favored among those without a college degree. I do find interesting the apparent parabolic relationship between education and political affiliation. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/69 "2011-09-05T00:21:24Z")
If you analyze all the GOP’s actions in terms of ‘aimed to help the wealthy elite economically’ everything they do makes perfect sense and is very consistent. Even their adoption of fundies is a ploy aimed at achieving its single over-arching goal. I am not surprised by anything I read in the article. The article confirmed my opinion of the GOP’s approaches and strategies, and I am by no means a GOP insider. Follow the money when you analyze the GOP, it’s the only thing that matters to them. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/70 "2011-09-05T00:27:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Your own cite shows high-school dropouts voting Kerry over Bush by the huge margin of 50-49. > > Postgrads favored Kerry over Bush 55-44 at your link. And if “college graduates” are defined to _ **include** _ the postgrad category, then Kerry was favored among college graduates as well. > > Your cite is repudiated. My follow-on question for you, **Qin Shi Huangdi** is: Will you admit to finding the facts surprising here? Or are you instead going to hunt for some wriggle-out? Well I read something to a different effect elsewhere but from the evidence present I admit I am wrong on this point. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/71 "2011-09-05T00:46:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well I read something to a different effect elsewhere but from the evidence present I admit I am wrong on this point. Kudos to you, sir. You’ve outclassed 99% of the right-wingers on this Board. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/72 "2011-09-05T00:52:02Z")
Well, there isn’t a lot of news in that catalog of sins, is there? I suppose I ought to be pleased that he has stumbled towards the light out of darkness, but he sure seemed to take his time about it. Twenty eight years is a damned long “oopsy!” But most all of this has been hashed out more than once, there are no startling revelations here, though the tone seems to indicate the astonishment of the recently sober. I’m not even shocked at the cynicism he highlights, the cold manipulation of politics. I mean, after Rove? And he correctly identifies the problem with the batshit fringe, but, who doesn’t? Did anyone lefty read something they didn’t already know? And if anyone righty missed it, its most likely because you didn’t pay attention to us bitching about it Still, if he was going to fall of his mule on the way to Damascus, one has to wish he had started out sooner. ---
**Author:** ![hocuspocusfocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f07891/32.png) [@hocuspocusfocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocuspocusfocus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/73 "2011-09-05T00:58:40Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I honestly can’t tell if this is satire or you are actually that misinformed. You honestly believe that we have 50% unemployment? Not a belief, a fact!!! The Bureau of Labor Stistics (The BLS) calculates the “official” unemployment rate. What they hope you don’t realize is that the “official” unemployment rate is a lie. Because if you give up looking for work, you no longer exist, and therefore are no longer counted in the unemployment rate. here is data for 2010 cause it was easy ```auto Civilian labor force Civilian Employed Unemployed Not in Year noninsti- labor tutional Percent force population Total of Percent Nonagri- Percent population Total of Agri- cultural Number of population culture industries labor force 2010 (1)...................... 237,830 153,889 64.7 139,064 58.5 2,206 136,858 14,825 9.6 83,941 ``` 83,941+14,825=~99,000,000 not working vs 136,000,000 working ~ 42% are not working And this does not count those that are not working drawing retirement SSI or unable to work due to disabilities also drawing SSI. Call it 50% don’t work. here is current data [http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm) No real marked change, but did we expect more from Obama? the batteries are dead in Obama’s laser focused on jobs!!! And Obama lies, lies, lies about this and about most everything!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/74 "2011-09-05T01:06:51Z")
> [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > Not a belief, a fact!!! OMG! He found out children under 16 and retirees aren’t working! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/75 "2011-09-05T01:10:39Z")
Well, on Tuesday I’m going to trot over to the kindergarten across the street and tell all them toddlers to file for unemployment, because you count them that way. Ditto for my 95-year-old father-in-law. And anyone who says that the US is more socialist than Denmark really needs to stop watching Fox News and listening to Rush and start hearing some truth. ETA: I might not have been first, but I was more florid! ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/76 "2011-09-05T01:13:43Z")
> [@hocuspocusfocus](#): > > Not a belief, a fact!!! > > The Bureau of Labor Stistics (The BLS) calculates the “official” unemployment rate. > > What they hope you don’t realize is that the “official” unemployment rate is a lie. Because if you give up looking for work, you no longer exist, and therefore are no longer counted in the unemployment rate. > > here is data for 2010 cause it was easy > > ```auto > > Civilian labor force > Civilian Employed Unemployed Not in > Year noninsti- labor > tutional Percent force > population Total of Percent Nonagri- Percent > population Total of Agri- cultural Number of > population culture industries labor > force > > 2010 (1)...................... 237,830 153,889 64.7 139,064 58.5 2,206 136,858 14,825 9.6 83,941 > > ``` > > 83,941+14,825=~99,000,000 not working vs 136,000,000 working ~ 42% are not working > And this does not count those that are not working drawing retirement SSI or unable to work due to disabilities also drawing SSI. > Call it 50% don’t work. > > here is current data [http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm) > No real marked change, but did we expect more from Obama? > > the batteries are dead in Obama’s laser focused on jobs!!! > And Obama lies, lies, lies about this and about most everything!!! You should learn what “Not in labor force” means. It does not mean unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/77 "2011-09-05T01:33:05Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > You should learn what “Not in labor force” means. It does not mean unemployed. Your interlocutor should not have to ask you what it means, then. You should volunteer that information, in the interest of furthering the discussion. Please do so now. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/78 "2011-09-05T02:00:29Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Practically speaking, I think the solution is that everyone will vote and everyone should pay **some** non-trivial income tax. Did I say devestating anywhere? > > If I did, sorry. Lose your job/income (for whatever reason) = Lose your right to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/79 "2011-09-05T02:04:55Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Your interlocutor should not have to ask you what it means, then. You should volunteer that information, in the interest of furthering the discussion. > > Please do so now. Of course, my liege. How could I have been so neglectful? As the two responses above me already have indicated, it means the number of people over the age of 16 who are either working or actively seeking work. It does not include everyone under 16, and many if not most retirees, permanently disabled people who cannot work, and wealthy heirs and heiresses who just don’t feel like working. It also includes many high school and college students. The number of 83,941,000 is the sum total of people not in the workforce. They are not employed, but are not unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179/80 "2011-09-05T02:16:12Z")
In the comments following the article was a link for George Lakoff on Moral Politics: [George Lakoff: Moral Politics - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9R9MtkpqM) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/powerful-article-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult/595179.md?page=5)