# POWS being shown on TV against teh Geneva convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563 "2003-03-23T16:41:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/1 "2003-03-23T16:41:50Z")
Mr Rumsfeld is currently on the air saying that the showing of POWs on Television is against the Geneva convention. He says “humiliating” the prisoners is a war crime. I’ve seen the video, it is unsettling but I’m not sure that it constitutes a war crime. The Kid they “interviewed” appeared frightened out of his wits but showed no signs of physcial abuse. He was asked his name, why he was in Iraq, and what he was doing when he was captured. I’m confused… Didn’t Iraqi prisoners get paraded for the cameras first? Including long shots detailing the disarming of a few? ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/2 "2003-03-23T16:55:01Z")
Most of those Iraqis shown had surrendered, in some cases approaching units with cameras seeking units to surrender to. These people were aparrently captured in combat. That might be a difference. Also, none of the Iraqi POW were interrogated on camera. The main offense though seems to be the disrespect for dead bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/3 "2003-03-23T16:56:08Z")
I think it’s OK to film them for news broadcasts in the act of surrendering and being organized and sent away or whatever. I don’t think the US is allowed to then make and air a video of the POWs being singled out and interviewed like a combination mug shot/dating video. I didn’t see the video of which you speak, though, but I’m assuming the contexts are different. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/4 "2003-03-23T17:03:48Z")
Neurotik, it could be a long time before the US public sees it. It came from Al-Jazeera and was passed on to the networks, who have specificallly said that they will not show it at this time. Unfortunately, it’s not a surprise. When was the last time American POWs were treated correctly according to the Geneva Convention? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/5 "2003-03-23T17:06:38Z")
Videotapes of the prisoners at Guantanamo were broadcast. How is this any different? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/6 "2003-03-23T17:13:53Z")
Does anyone take the Geneva convention seriously anymore? Every country on the planet seems to have tried its hand at violating it at least once, with no particular repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/7 "2003-03-23T17:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > When was the last time American POWs were treated correctly according to the Geneva Convention? Some German commanders in WWII. Rommel and Montgomery were scrupulous in the desert. Sometimes even the German military prisons, like [Stalag 3](http://www.b24.net/pow/stalag3.htm), followed the Geneva Convention - subject to the whims of the madmen on top of course. My father always wished he’d been captured by the Germans and not the Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![TlighT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@TlighT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TlighT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/8 "2003-03-23T17:20:34Z")
I don’t think Iraq ever signed the Geneva Convention. So, technically, they don’t have to abide by it. ---
**Author:** ![TlighT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@TlighT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TlighT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/9 "2003-03-23T17:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TlighT \* > \*\*I don’t think Iraq ever signed the Geneva Convention. So, technically, they don’t have to abide by it. \*\* Ofcourse most of the rest of the world will disagree with that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/10 "2003-03-23T17:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m confused… Didn’t Iraqi prisoners get paraded for the cameras first? Including long shots detailing the disarming of a few? I don’t think that long shots of Iraqis walking down the road with their hands on their heads - what I’ve seen - is the same thing as forced interviews. How they treat them is going to be the issue. If Gulf War I is any indication they will be beaten and tortured. But, hey, we’re the big bad US, we can’t complain. We will, however, things being the way they are, probably make some changes to the rules of engagement. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/11 "2003-03-23T17:44:52Z")
MSNBC is saying that the video shows some POWs, and some dead bodies on the floor with gunshot wounds to the head. That may be the violation of the Geneva Convention Rumsfeld is talking about - it looks like the Iraqis are executing POW’s. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/12 "2003-03-23T17:48:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kingpengvin \* > \*\*Mr Rumsfeld is currently on the air saying that the showing of POWs on Television is against the Geneva convention. He says “humiliating” the prisoners is a war crime. > > I’ve seen the video, it is unsettling but I’m not sure that it constitutes a war crime. The Kid they “interviewed” appeared frightened out of his wits but showed no signs of physcial abuse. He was asked his name, why he was in Iraq, and what he was doing when he was captured. > > I’m confused… Didn’t Iraqi prisoners get paraded for the cameras first? Including long shots detailing the disarming of a few? \*\* Do you have any link on the internet that has this video? ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/13 "2003-03-23T17:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > MSNBC is saying that the video shows some POWs, and some dead bodies on the floor with gunshot wounds to the head. That may be the violation of the Geneva Convention Rumsfeld is talking about - it looks like the Iraqis are executing POW’s. Some dead bodies on the floor don’t say that much about how & when they died, no? I think Rumsfeld was saying that “humiliating” prisoners on tv was a violation against the Geneva convention. And so it is. But so is Guantanamo Bay. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/14 "2003-03-23T17:56:04Z")
Okay, here’s the scoop. CNN just read the appropriate clause of the Geneva Convention, which says something like, “prisoners of war must at all times be protected against acts of violence, intimidation, and public humiliation.” Apparently, the tape shows the POW’s being humiliated. Now the Iraqis are issuing a statement saying that they will treat the soldiers according to the Geneva Convention. They had better. This regime WILL fall, and the military leaders still have a chance to retain their jobs after the war and be part of the reconstruction. But if they allow brutality of POW’s, they’ll all be in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/15 "2003-03-23T18:18:57Z")
Rumsfeld’s statements are a little confusing. It isn’t particularly illegal to videotape humiliation: it’s the humiliation that’s not allowed. The video is evidence. Why soldiers are given greater rights and respect in international law than civilians are is not something I understand. BBC suggests that the networks showing the tape, especially prior to family notification, was “tasteless in the extreme.” I still find it weird that supporting soldiers would get captured by Iraqis connected to central command. Where could this have happened? It seems like U.S. troops, wherever they are, are at least severely threatening the positions of any Iraqi forces: so then where are they hiding out with prisoners? How did support troops apparently get taken back through American lines to Iraqi controlled territory? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/16 "2003-03-23T18:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Do you have any link on the internet that has this video? \*\* Not the video, but stills of two of them can be found [here](http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=244999&lang=e&dir=news). One of the soldiers looks banged up and the other appears aprehensive. No mention of their names, but it states that one of them is from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Matthew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Mr.Matthew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Matthew)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/17 "2003-03-23T18:38:41Z")
I don’t know of any video, but [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/) front page currently has a composite picture of the five captured US soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/18 "2003-03-23T18:43:44Z")
How about this? Article 13 of [Geneva Convention (III) Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva03.htm) Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest. **Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity**. Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/19 "2003-03-23T19:07:16Z")
This falls solidly under the public curiosity clause, as least as it has been interpreted. The idea in the Geneva convention was captured soldiers being paraded around in public like medevil clowns. This was especially important to protect soldiers against lynchings. It’s a little trickier in the modern age of video media, but most people recognize that it applies even when the “public” is not present to shout and humiliate the prisoners personally. It may also apply to our own video of captured soldiers, however, even without any personal interview. Certainly we are using these pictures for propaganda purposes in much the same way as the Iraqis. However, it can hardly be argued that we are treating the Iraqi soldiers with disrespect: many we are apparently simply disarming and releasing. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563/20 "2003-03-23T19:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TlighT \* > \*\*I don’t think Iraq ever signed the Geneva Convention. So, technically, they don’t have to abide by it. \*\* Apparently that’s true, though most of the provisions are arguably part of customary international law and would apply in any case. Bush is already calling for a war crime tribunal to punish those responsible for the treatment of American POWs. Couldn’t he at least make an attempt to hide his hypocrisy? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pows-being-shown-on-tv-against-teh-geneva-convention/163563.md?page=2)