# PR is a nation now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144 "2004-08-16T21:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/21 "2004-08-17T14:24:10Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > I think there have been a lot of threads on PR’s status. And JRDelirious is the man who knows _everything_ about our favorite Commonwealth. > > PR has won six medals, all bronze ones in boxing. Daniel Santos is the most recent medalist back in 1996. > > I think the basketball team is a longshot for a medal despite their win over the US. (a) Thank you, I am flattered. I try to help. A search for “Puerto Rico statehood commonwealth” or similar should provide some of my earlier, more extensive posts on the issue. (b) And there have been other medals by PR athletes, achieved competing under the USA flag (c) Sure; there are 10 other teams besides PR/US in the tournament. Our Olympic best is #6; getting to the round of 4 would be historic. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/22 "2004-08-17T14:46:08Z")
“Nation” and “politically self-governing entity” are not necessary synonymous. The IOC recognizes any group with a NOC as a separate entity for Olympic purposes. (Puerto Rico, with a population well over a million, is hardly small – A girl from Liechtenstein won a bronze medal in the Winter Olympics some years ago.) It might be worth noting that in the international cricket competition, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand field teams – and they compete against England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Last I looked, 3.2 of those were united in one “nation” politically, though they maintain separate “national” status ethnosocially. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/23 "2004-08-17T19:24:17Z")
Puerto Rico has electoral votes? Do the other outlying territories have them as well? I thought they were one of the things that only states (and D.C.) enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/24 "2004-08-17T20:37:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > PR however, is owned lock stock & barrel by the USofA, and the residents thereupon are US Citizens. Minor nitpick…I don’t think they are citizens are they? They don’t get to send representatives to Congress and they don’t vote in presidential elections. They are, however, “noncitizen nationals”, and (I think) they don’t need to have green cards if they want to come up to the U.S. and work. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/25 "2004-08-17T21:23:12Z")
Hmm- I think they are but- JR? What’s the scoop? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/26 "2004-08-17T21:43:34Z")
Quick answers while JRD is back from work (at this time, he probably is)… Yes, Puerto Ricans have had US citizenship since 1917, after the implementation of the Jones act. There have been other threads regarding this, I’ll look them up soon after this. We don’t need any sort of green card or passport to come and work, study, and live in any of the 50 states (or the other territories). Puerto Rican political parties send delegates to the Democratic and Republican National Conventions, but the island has no electoral votes. Average Joe on the island doesn’t care much about the conventions, either. There are around 4 million people living in Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/27 "2004-08-17T22:04:53Z")
[How is Puerto Rico different than a state?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=136977&highlight=Puerto+Rico+Jones) [Website from the PR government census page (in Spanish)](http://www.censo.gobierno.pr/) [One of factfinder’s pages on Puerto Rico](http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=n&_lang=en&mt_name=DEC_2000_PL_U_GCTPL_ST2&format=ST-2&_box_head_nbr=GCT-PL&ds_name=DEC_2000_PL_U&geo_id=04000US72) [What is the difference between commonwealths?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=6775&highlight=Puerto+Rico) [Statehood for Puerto Rico](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=41008&highlight=Puerto+Rico) [How is Puerto Rico different from a state?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=136977&highlight=Puerto+Rico) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/28 "2004-08-18T00:20:32Z")
Thanks to KG for the back-up on the PR citizenship/electoral vote questions, which accurately answers the question on both. The Citizenship Provision of the 1917 Jones Act were since succeeded by the Nationality Acts of 1941 and 195something, that make PR “US Soil” for citizenship and immigration purposes, so anyone born here is a natural-born US citizen. The ones who are Noncitizen Nationals are the _Samoans_. On the issue of the Presidential primaries/conventions I’ll add it only becomes an issue here if the Presidential nomination is actively contested _ **and** _ the local political factions are themselves actively allied with said contestants (e.g. GOP + Dems in 80 and 88, Dems-only in 84). Otherwise it’s a yawner except for us politics wonks. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/29 "2004-08-18T11:52:07Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Puerto Rico has electoral votes? Do the other outlying territories have them as well? I thought they were one of the things that only states (and D.C.) enjoyed. I think what JRDelirious’ wanted to say that Puerto Rico would get two senators, six congresspersons and eight electors if it became a state, which it isn’t (yet). ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/30 "2004-08-18T13:39:05Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > \ > Puerto Rican political parties send delegates to the Democratic and Republican National Conventions, but the island has no electoral votes. Average Joe on the island doesn’t care much about the conventions, either. > \ “Average Joe on the island” should be changed to “Average Juan on the island.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/31 "2004-08-18T19:50:49Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > “Average Joe on the island” should be changed to “Average Juan on the island.” 😃 [nitpick] Assuming Joe is an abbreviated form of Joseph, it should rather be José. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/32 "2004-08-18T20:46:25Z")
[nitpick_2] The “Joe” equivalent for José would be “Pepe”. [/nitpick_2] ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/33 "2004-08-18T21:00:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > It might be worth noting that in the international cricket competition, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand field teams – and they compete against England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Last I looked, 3.2 of those were united in one “nation” politically, though they maintain separate “national” status ethnosocially. Actually, it’s more confusing than that, even. The ten “full member” “nations” (and you’ll see why I put “nations” in quotes in a minute) in cricket are: Australia England and Wales (usually referred to as just “England”)\* South Africa India West Indies (Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, British Guyana, the Windward Isles, and the Leeward Isles) New Zealand Pakistan Sri Lanka Zimbabwe Bangladesh So, let’s review: eight of the ten “nations” are sovereign and fully distinct countries. One (England and Wales) is part of the United Kingdom. The West Indies comprises about fifteen independent countries playing under one flag. Essentially it’s all the cricket-playing nations of the Carribean, _except_ Bermuda, which is an “associate member” country in its own right. Scotland and Ireland are also associate member countries. I have no idea where Northern Ireland fits into the picture–I know that at least one NI cricketer played for Ireland a few years back, because I met him in Los Angeles! And even that’s not the end of the confusion. “West Africa” is also an associate member–most of its players come from Nigeria and Ghana. “East and Central Africa” used to be one too–it was comprised of four countries. But Kenya left in the 70’s, and Uganda also recently struck out on its own, leaving Zambia and Tanzania out in the cold. To add a little more to the confusion, Scotland has a team in the English one-day league, Zimbabwe 2nd XI, Kenya and Namibia play in South Africa, and Bermuda, Canada, and the USA all played in the West Indian league up until recently. Simply put, international cricket administration is a bit of a minefield. Oh, players can, and have, switched countries. \*The England and Wales cricket team is administered by the England and Wales Cricket Board, also known as the ECB. Yes, I know. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/34 "2004-08-18T21:15:16Z")
Miniscule nitpick - Bermuda isn’t in the Caribbean. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/35 "2004-08-18T22:53:10Z")
OK, OK, Bermuda’s not in the Carribean. But the Bahamas are, and they are not part of the West Indies, either. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/36 "2004-08-18T22:55:42Z")
Oh yeah, and if anyone wants to quibble that the Bahamas aren’t really in the Carribean–the Cayman Islands are _definitely_ in the Carribean, and they, too, are not part of the “West Indies” for cricketing purposes. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/37 "2004-08-18T23:25:28Z")
> [@](#): > > The British West Indies, formerly united in the West Indies Federation, still make up a composite cricket team that successfully competes in test matches and one-day internationals. The West Indian cricket team also includes the South American nation of Guyana, a former British colony. > **[West Indies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}21°59′00″N 79°02′00″W / 21.9833°N 79.0333°W / 21.9833; -79.0333 > The West Indies are a subregion of North America, surrounded by the North Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean Sea that includes 13 independent island countries and 1... So it seems that the grouping making up the present-day Windies team is a historical one with political origins. (Although the same page also gets Bermuda 1000 miles out of place, so it’s perhaps not the most reliable source) ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144/38 "2004-08-18T23:55:55Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West\_Indies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies) > > So it seems that the grouping making up the present-day Windies team is a historical one with political origins. I’m still scratching my head over the Caymans and Bahamas, though. How did they get left out? (OK, I know how they originally got left out: the Big Four in Carribean cricket were always Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, and Guyana. The Leewards and Windwards were only added relatively late in the day.) Not that the Caymans and Bahamas are hotbeds of cricket–for many years the only ground on the Cayman Islands [doubled as a football pitch](http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/NATIONAL/ICC_MEMBERS/CAY/), and the Bahamas are on the same ICC level as such notable cricketing countries as Afghanistan, Japan, and Mexico. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pr-is-a-nation-now/260144.md?page=1)