# Pravda lives up to its old reputation. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674 "2003-03-24T02:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/1 "2003-03-24T02:07:38Z")
> **[Basra: 77 civilians butchered](https://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/47522-n/)** > > Western news agencies have quoted Iraqi sources, claiming that the result of the sustained bombardment on Iraq’s second city, Basra, is 77 civilians.In othe... > [@](#): > > Basra: 77 civilians butchered > > …In other attacks, 4 civilians are reported by Iraqi sources to have been murdered in Tikrit overnight… a children’s fun park was totally destroyed by **a terrorist attack last night by US military aircraft** on the left bank of the River Tigris… > **[USA Steals Iraq’s Assets](https://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/47521-n/)** > > The Bush administration and its allies have added thievery to its growing list of criminal actions after three days of terrorist and murderous activities in... > [@](#): > > USA Steals Iraq’s Assets > Thieving, terrorism, murder…how much lower can the Bush administration sink? > The Bush administration and its allies have added thievery to its growing list of criminal actions after three days of terrorist and murderous activities in Iraq have left hundreds of civilians injured and at least five dead. These are war crimes. Bush, Rumsfeld, Blair, Hoon and their administrations are terrorists, murderers and war criminals. [http://english.pravda.ru/war/2003/03/21/44779.html](http://english.pravda.ru/war/2003/03/21/44779.html) > [@](#): > > [In the 1980s] Kuwait’s banks started ousting American ones from the Persian Gulf region. When the pressure became unbearable, the damage that was caused to USA’s financial interests was obvious. This led to Iraqi incursion in Kuwait… It should be mentioned here that if Hussein wanted to obtain the control over the whole region, he should have advanced further on. However, Saddam was not intended to do that at all. > > American financial position in the region became a lot stronger. Maybe, that was the reason why then President George Bush started overthrowing the Iraqi dictator. After the war in Iraq, Saddam became an outlawed persona for the world. The USA repeatedly used him for demonstration of its force, its relations with the United Nations and other tactic goals, economic goals, first and foremost. Nice balanced, objective reporting. It’s nice to see that no matter how much the world changes, some things never do. The Russians are not our friends. But they have no qualms with accepting our food and monetary aid. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/2 "2003-03-24T02:15:39Z")
I have no problems with the basic thrust of your article, **Joe**. But as I understand it, Pravda is now a free market entity, no longer the government voice. I take this with exactly the same grain of salt that I take World Net Daily’s supposedly objective reporting. I do have one small quibble, with this phrase: “The Russians are not our friends.” Even under the Soviet regime, most of the Russian people liked Americans substantially more than much of the rest of the world did – but were, of course, incapable of swaying a self-perpetuating oligarchy, even had they had the temerity to try (and the Russian national character is stereotyped as stoic endurance). The editors of Pravda are not our friends – but I’d find it quite unlikely that 14 years of freedom and help have eroded the affection of Russians in general for America. I could be wrong, but it’s an opinion I feel I can stand by. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/3 "2003-03-24T02:19:09Z")
I guess your statement regarding the Russian people is fair. Allow me to rephrase, then: The Russians who have the tanks and guns, and who control the bombs and missiles, are not our friends. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/4 "2003-03-24T02:26:15Z")
Why SHOULD they be our friends? We are now a rogue nation. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/5 "2003-03-24T02:28:13Z")
We’re a rouge nation, a subtle but important difference. ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/6 "2003-03-24T02:33:09Z")
Sorry, Beagle, but your comment is so completely incomprehensible as to leave me speechless. Do I just not get it? Are you comparing America to a cheap whore? I’m not being facetious; I’m truly baffled! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/7 "2003-03-24T02:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > the Russian national character is stereotyped as stoic endurance Which, **Polycarp** , is of course, VERY untrue! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/8 "2003-03-24T02:42:42Z")
**Beagle** , There are pun, bad puns, _really_ bad puns…then there’s your most recent felony. I’m swearing out a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/9 "2003-03-24T02:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CaptBushido \* > \*\*Sorry, Beagle, but your comment is so completely incomprehensible as to leave me speechless. Do I just not get it? Are you comparing America to a cheap whore? I’m not being facetious; I’m truly baffled! \*\* Rogue, rouge. I’m just tired of the neverending US bashing in convenient five-words-or-less slogans. I used to read Pravda more often. I even posted in the forums for a while, when the server went down, in my defense. The hatred level quickly scared me back over here once the SDMB returned. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/10 "2003-03-24T02:53:49Z")
Just thought this was an interesting cite to read. [Ezekial 38-39 war](http://www.biblrytr.com/revelation16.htm) On a different note, I am also sick of the US bashing. If I hated a place as much as I have been seeing, I would get out. Good Lord. ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/11 "2003-03-24T03:07:55Z")
Yes, Beagle, I agree, but is there a definition of “rouge” that I’m not aware of? As far as I’m aware: rough (roozh): n. a red powder or paste used to color the cheecks and lips v. to put rouge on You seem an intelligent sort, but I’m still baffled… ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/12 "2003-03-24T03:13:17Z")
Yes, Beagle, I agree, but is there a definition of “rouge” that I’m not aware of? As far as I’m aware: rough (roozh): n. a red powder or paste used to color the cheecks and lips v. to put rouge on I’m still baffled… Although, admittedly, it’s probably my fault. I generally get jokes but puns always throw me a curve and this one, hoo-boy… I really don’t know… ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/13 "2003-03-24T03:14:50Z")
Dammit! I was led to believe my first draft was never posted. Alright I may look like a moron, but hey: freebie addition to my post record! And look! Another for the embarassed apology! ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58f4c7/32.png) [@Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Barber_s_Underwear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/14 "2003-03-24T03:15:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*Just thought this was an interesting cite to read. > > [Ezekial 38-39 war](http://www.biblrytr.com/revelation16.htm) > \*\* Thanks, **JerseyDiamond** , that _was_ a very interesting cite. It certainly is interesting to see that some people are complete and utter nutbags, and despite this, they can post their claptrap on the internet for millions to read and cite in totally irrelevant places. - Bubba. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/15 "2003-03-24T03:46:45Z")
It’s not irrelevant to me and many others. Besides, I am just greatful that I live in a free country that allows me to post and say what ever I want, regardless of what _utter nutbags_ say. The idea _is_ for millions to see it, duh. As long as I am able, I am sure I will post and say stuff that will tick you off. Deal with it. America is great. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58f4c7/32.png) [@Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Barber_s_Underwear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/16 "2003-03-24T03:58:42Z")
I’m sure America is great. I wouldn’t really know, though, as I’ve never really been there. I was saying that the webpage that you linked to wasn’t really relevant to the OP, which seemed to be saying that due to a few editorials in a Russian newspaper, the Russia is an enemy of the USA. Surely you aren’t claiming that the shoddy predictions that you linked to, which have about as much validity as those fake Nostradamus quotes that surfaced after September 11, are evidence that Russia is America’s enemy? -Bubba. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/17 "2003-03-24T04:10:22Z")
As far as I know, Pravda is no longer the voice of the Russian people it never was. In fact it is just not clear what “Pravda” is… > **[InfoWorld - Technology insight for the enterprise](https://www.infoworld.com/article/display/0,1151,19878,00.html)** > > Business technology, IT news, product reviews and enterprise IT strategies. (This article describes two very different “pravdas” - and neither bear much resemblance to the Pravda online now). And from what I have read online, Pravda seems to target an international audience of - well they are a sort of combination left wing kook/right wing kook crowd - the sort that see “Zionism” around every corner. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/18 "2003-03-24T04:21:40Z")
It’s really so stupid I’m embarrassed to explain myself any further without providing gratuitious irrelvant citations to authority when I’m done. As **elucidator** already noted, it’s just a bad pun. The “subtle distinction” between rogue and rouge is the transpostion of two letters. To call the US a rouge nation has as much significance as throwing out that the US is a rogue nation without giving us a criterion or an argument. [Northern Front](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20030324/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_northern_iraq_5) Well, it’s about GD time GWB! You only had a year to build up forces in northern Iraq. [Buy Halliburton stock. Don’t be high-minded about money.](http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=business&cat=halliburton) [Pravda forums](http://engforum.pravda.ru/) Don’t let the new SDMBish format fool you. It’s scary out there kids. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58f4c7/32.png) [@Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Barber_s_Underwear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/19 "2003-03-24T04:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by syncrolecyne \* > \*\* > > In fact it is just not clear what “Pravda” is… > [http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,19878,00.html](http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,19878,00.html) > > (This article describes two very different “pravdas” - and neither bear much resemblance to the Pravda online now). > \*\* I couldn’t really find to much information on the ownership of ‘Pravda’ either. Some places seem to indicate that it is owned by the Russian Communist Party, others say that it is owned by Prof-Media, which is part of Vladimir Potanin’s empire. What is clear, however, is that a few editorials in one paper do not speak for 145 million people, nor for the government of those people. If **Joe Cool** can condemn Russia based on a few Pravda editorials, then I can condemn the US based on the Fox News Network, or Australia on Alan Jones. - Bubba. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674/20 "2003-03-24T04:51:45Z")
No, Bubba. Put down the banjo and step away. I’m condemning Russia based on their actions. I was under the mistaken impression that Pravda was still the state’s mouthpiece. I condemn them based on their selling hardware to a bloodthirsty man who enjoys dishing out torture, and training his soldiers in its use, specifically for use against our forces. But while I worry that this may turn into another world war, I still think it needed to be done. And since the UN is impotent and the other major countries don’t have the guts or desire to stop this guy, it fell to us and the U.K. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pravda-lives-up-to-its-old-reputation/163674.md?page=2)