# Pray as a legal term **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362 "2018-04-13T20:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/1 "2018-04-13T20:10:42Z")
I just had to sign a document because my father’s original will was lost. The lawyer has a copy of the will and she wrote “we pray the court accepts this copy for probate” Is it common to say “pray” rather than “ask?” This is NC if it matters. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/2 "2018-04-13T20:34:09Z")
Pray in legalese means to request the court to make a judgment. They are formally requesting that the court judges that the copy is acceptable. We use pray largely to talk about interactions with a deity, but it simply means to ask earnestly or to entreat or beg. We still use it in this way in the phrase ‘Pray tell’ which is an ironic form of a request that the person tell you whatever information you’re seeking. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/3 "2018-04-13T20:38:37Z")
In certain contexts, it’s common. In federal court, the part of a civil complaint (the document that initiates a lawsuit) where the plaintiff details what he or she is asking for (money damages, an injunction, etc.) is typically called a “prayer for relief.” ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/4 "2018-04-13T20:46:47Z")
I recall that for a speeding ticket I can get a “prayer for judgement” which means no points on my license. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/5 "2018-04-13T20:53:37Z")
Yes, very common. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/6 "2018-04-13T21:08:21Z")
Going right to the source, you can find this definition of prayer in [The Law Dictionary](https://thelawdictionary.org/) > [@](#): > > The request contained in a bill in equity that the court will grant the process, aid, or relief which the complainant desires. Also, by extension, the term is applied to that part of the bill which contains this request. If you ever read Hamlet you probably had to memorize this bit. > [@William Shakespeare](#): > > Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you, trippingly on the tongue: but if you mouth it, as many of your players do, I had as lief the town-crier spoke my lines. And stuff like this > [@Juliet](#): > > I would thou hadst my bones, and I thy news. Nay, come, I pray thee speak. Good, good nurse, speak. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/7 "2018-04-13T21:19:12Z")
Is this mostly used in situations where they have the power to grant your request but you aren’t legally **entitled** to what you’re requesting? (i.e. there’s nothing forcing them to go along, and asking “pretty please” is the best you can hope for?) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/8 "2018-04-13T21:27:10Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Is this mostly used in situations where they have the power to grant your request but you aren’t legally **entitled** to what you’re requesting? (i.e. there’s nothing forcing them to go along, and asking “pretty please” is the best you can hope for?) I always thought used in that manner it meant please in a rather sarcastic manner ie "Pray tell us how your going to be rich in the future " ect … ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/9 "2018-04-13T21:29:40Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Is this mostly used in situations where they have the power to grant your request but you aren’t legally **entitled** to what you’re requesting? (i.e. there’s nothing forcing them to go along, and asking “pretty please” is the best you can hope for?) No. Generally when you file a Complaint, or a Petition, with the court, you are asserting that you are entitled to the relief requested. The Prayer for Relief is just a way of asking the court to grant that relief. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/10 "2018-04-13T21:43:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No. Generally when you file a Complaint, or a Petition, with the court, you are asserting that you are entitled to the relief requested. The Prayer for Relief is just a way of asking the court to grant that relief. Thanks for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/11 "2018-04-13T21:46:32Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I always thought used in that manner it meant please in a rather sarcastic manner ie > > "Pray tell us how your going to be rich in the future " ect … In everyday modern conversation, absolutely you’re right. But not in court documents - you don’t want to antagonize anybody with sarcasm in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/12 "2018-04-13T21:51:21Z")
Is there any chance the court would say they are not accepting that copy of the will? Everyone named in the will is OK with using the copy. We all had to sign a notarized statement saying that we accept the copy. The statement also says things like “we looked everywhere for it and could not find it” and “we don’t think it was lost as a method of destroying it” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/13 "2018-04-14T06:50:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Is there any chance the court would say they are not accepting that copy of the will? Everyone named in the will is OK with using the copy. We all had to sign a notarized statement saying that we accept the copy. The statement also says things like “we looked everywhere for it and could not find it” and “we don’t think it was lost as a method of destroying it” If no one objects, the court will likely accept the copy. If an interested party–pretty much anyone who might be entitled to inherit–objected, then the court would likely have a hearing to decide whether to accept the copy. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/14 "2018-04-14T13:24:01Z")
In the Good Old Days, pray was a word for request or beg a favour - i.e. to ask your king for a favour or to grant your request, typically from someone with more power than you who could grant that request. Since you also asked God for favours, or also asked the saints to intercede with God on your behalf, these too were praying. Nowadays, the usage is almost exclusively religious, but as with most legal terms, in formal documents it is a holdover from the earlier use even though it has fallen out of common usage in everyday speech. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/15 "2018-04-15T22:16:12Z")
Current thread similar: \*\*“May it please the court…” \*\*[https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=853048](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=853048) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/16 "2018-04-16T18:33:40Z")
the missing will has been found. I guess that means the issue is now moot? (in legal terms) The lawyer found it. Of course that means the estate has to pay for the time she spent writing up the document we signed that is no longer needed. I guess we still get billed for that time ? Or do they write it off as an error? Not a big deal, just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/17 "2018-04-16T18:39:57Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Of course that means the estate has to pay for the time she spent writing up the document we signed that is no longer needed. I guess we still get billed for that time ? Or do they write it off as an error? Not a big deal, just curious. That will depend on the fee agreement with the lawyer handling the estate. Some do hourly billing, some do a flat fee, and there are other possible arrangements. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/18 "2018-04-17T18:41:38Z")
When I write appellate briefs, that’s the very last section. Factual Background - Summary of Argument - Argument - Prayer. Well, apart from the certificate of service and certificate of compliance, but those are pretty rote. The prayer is the section, usually just one or two sentences, where you tell the court what you’re asking for specifically. In my case, it usually says, “WHEREFORE, PREMISES CONSIDERED, the State of Texas respectfully requests that this Honorable Court deny all requested relief and that Appellant’s convictions be AFFIRMED.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/19 "2018-04-19T02:04:03Z")
I’ve heard counsel or judges refer to the “prayer for relief”, meaning the succinct outline of what the party wants the court to do, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen the term used as in **Max Torque’s** example. More likely to use the heading “Relief Sought” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-as-a-legal-term/812362/20 "2018-04-19T18:49:34Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve heard counsel or judges refer to the “prayer for relief”, meaning the succinct outline of what the party wants the court to do, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen the term used as in **Max Torque’s** example. More likely to use the heading “Relief Sought” or something like that. I routinely have a final paragraph in my pleadings that goes something like “WHEREFORE, PREMISES CONSIDERED, Plaintiff prays for the following relief… a) b) c) d) or in the alternative… e) any other relief to which Plaintiff may be entitled.”