# Pray+rain= Proof of God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419 "2007-11-14T21:06:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/61 "2007-11-19T18:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And how do you know there is only one, or any gods at all ? You don’t. IF there are gods, you have no way to tell if there’s just one or an infinity of them. Then God is worthless and should be ignored. You know, I’ve never been a romantically inclined person, but people with rhetoric like yours have gotten me to the point where the word “love” makes my skin crawl. [/QUOTE] God is within you, think what you will. Try a little fluid intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/62 "2007-11-19T19:57:45Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] God is within you, think what you will. [/QUOTE] If that’s true then god does _not_ love dairy products. He’s been quite emphatic about this of late. > [@](#): > > Try a little fluid intelligence. How is this different from normal intelligence? Does it involve belief or faith or any other kind of fuzzy thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/63 "2007-11-19T20:06:15Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Try a little fluid intelligence. [/QUOTE] Is that where you get drunk off your ass and then try to do theology? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/64 "2007-11-19T20:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Is that where you get drunk off your ass and then try to do theology? [/QUOTE] I don’t drink booze, take drugs, or smoke anything. Probably time to google for you so you won’t appear as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/65 "2007-11-19T21:04:31Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] How is this different from normal intelligence? Does it involve belief or faith or any other kind of fuzzy thinking? [/QUOTE] [Fluid and crystalized intelligence.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelligence) I see no connection with religion/faith/spirituality. Except of course for the natural tendency of intelligence to undercut it. **lekatt** of course may be using some silly religious version of the term. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/66 "2007-11-19T21:14:30Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] [Fluid and crystalized intelligence.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelligence) I see no connection with religion/faith/spirituality. Except of course for the natural tendency of intelligence to undercut it. **lekatt** of course may be using some silly religious version of the term. [/QUOTE] Like Shakespeare, I think you doth protest too much. I am not religious. But I can tell the difference between good deeds and not so good deeds wherever they come from. There is plenty of room in this world for all kinds of beliefs, but best of all are those with no belief systems for they are the enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/67 "2007-11-19T21:18:45Z")
I like to think of fluid intelligence as intelligence that can flow around and behind what seem to the solid objections and melt them into possibilities thus increasing knowledge rather than blocking it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/68 "2007-11-19T21:35:11Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Like Shakespeare, I think you doth protest too much. [/quote] No, I really am that hostile and contemptuous towards religion [QUOTE=lekatt] I am not religious. [/quote] Yes, you are; you have repeatedly stated that you believe in God, and so on. You are religious by definition. [QUOTE=lekatt] There is plenty of room in this world for all kinds of beliefs, but best of all are those with no belief systems for they are the enlightened. [/QUOTE] No, they are babies or brain damaged, not blessed. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/69 "2007-11-19T21:47:26Z")
When the guv’nuh prayed, he did so on behalf of all Georgians, so it was like the prayer version of spam–millions of prayers sent with one send button. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/70 "2007-11-19T22:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Easy, there is only one God, which people call by many, many different names. They also attribute many different characterists to God, but God is only love. [/QUOTE] And all this time I thought god was angry spaghetti. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/71 "2007-11-19T22:22:56Z")
[QUOTE=Flipshod] When the guv’nuh prayed, he did so on behalf of all Georgians, so it was like the prayer version of spam–millions of prayers sent with one send button. [/QUOTE] If that’s true, I think it’s safe to say that Georgia is now in God’s spam folder. Thanks, assholes. Now the Falcons won’t make the playoffs and I’m never going to find my car keys. ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/72 "2007-11-19T22:45:05Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] It’s ok, you both prayed to the same God, just different names. [/QUOTE] Different names only? What about whether it was the God whose son was Jesus? Or was it the God who has a book and whose angel recited the contents of that book to someone 1400 years ago? Or was it the god that the people on the Indian sub-continent call Ganesh and who has the head of an elephant? I ask because the Ganesh god is the son of two other gods, and these two have several other god- riends both male and female who share the platform with yet many others, and none of these have ever been recorded to have gone to the land of Israel… Please make up your mind! If you say it is the same God, will you and you friends allow me to bring a statue of Ganesh into your church and put it next to that of Jesus? Will you allow me to put a statue of Jesus and Ganesh in a mosque or in the Kabah in Mecca? And while I am at it, could you please tell me why doesn’t God himself tell us in unequivocal terms that He is the one and same God instead of YOU telling us? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/73 "2007-11-19T22:57:54Z")
_The sky started falling, a deafening rain Prophets shout warnings but all is in vain Paul Revere’s nightmare comes true in our land Nobody listens I talk with my hands_ The Rainmakers ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/74 "2007-11-20T02:11:54Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] No, I really am that hostile and contemptuous towards religion Yes, you are; you have repeatedly stated that you believe in God, and so on. You are religious by definition. No, they are babies or brain damaged, not blessed. [/QUOTE] Enlighten me as to the “why” of your hostility. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/75 "2007-11-20T02:23:51Z")
[QUOTE=wisernow] Different names only? What about whether it was the God whose son was Jesus? Or was it the God who has a book and whose angel recited the contents of that book to someone 1400 years ago? Or was it the god that the people on the Indian sub-continent call Ganesh and who has the head of an elephant? I ask because the Ganesh god is the son of two other gods, and these two have several other god- riends both male and female who share the platform with yet many others, and none of these have ever been recorded to have gone to the land of Israel… Please make up your mind! If you say it is the same God, will you and you friends allow me to bring a statue of Ganesh into your church and put it next to that of Jesus? Will you allow me to put a statue of Jesus and Ganesh in a mosque or in the Kabah in Mecca? And while I am at it, could you please tell me why doesn’t God himself tell us in unequivocal terms that He is the one and same God instead of YOU telling us? [/QUOTE] Well, I am not a prophet or preacher, just someone who understands through personal experience with God. I could be anyone, from anywhere. I have no followers nor desire any. I have no church, I sell nothing. If God revealed Himself in unequivocal terms the illusions of duality would be revealed and the school called earth rendered useless. We are here to learn about things for ourselves, love vs. fear, and spiritual nature. We must learn on our own deeds what is happening. Try using fluid intelligence to break through the belief systems. ---
**Author:** ![Flyhalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea5d25/32.png) [@Flyhalf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyhalf)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/76 "2007-11-20T02:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Try using fluid intelligence to break through the belief systems. [/QUOTE] Couldn’t the same be said to you? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/77 "2007-11-20T02:26:05Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Enlighten me as to the “why” of your hostility. [/QUOTE] Because I consider it stupid and destructive, as I’ve said any number of times. Because I consider it to be factually incorrect, intellectually and morally corrosive, and fundamentally lacking in redeeming qualities. Because it’s just silly. Because all of the various evils and stupidities done in the various religions. Because there’s no rational reason to believe that ANY of those religions is anything but utter nonsense. Because it’s a dead end, empty of meaning and knowledge and accomplishment. And yes that includes your repellent speeches about “God is love”. Urk. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/78 "2007-11-20T02:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Try using fluid intelligence to break through the belief systems. [/QUOTE] I did. Well, intelligence at least; “fluid” or not. That’s why I’m an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/79 "2007-11-20T13:08:20Z")
[QUOTE=Flyhalf] Couldn’t the same be said to you? [/QUOTE] Yes, I use it all the time. We all have belief systems, such as, religion, science, politics, etc. My belief systems are almost non-existant, no religion, science or politics. I just attempt to live in the now and use my personal experiences to guide me. It is nothing new, but it is rare. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419/80 "2007-11-20T13:12:10Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Because I consider it stupid and destructive, as I’ve said any number of times. Because I consider it to be factually incorrect, intellectually and morally corrosive, and fundamentally lacking in redeeming qualities. Because it’s just silly. Because all of the various evils and stupidities done in the various religions. Because there’s no rational reason to believe that ANY of those religions is anything but utter nonsense. Because it’s a dead end, empty of meaning and knowledge and accomplishment. And yes that includes your repellent speeches about “God is love”. Urk. [/QUOTE] Your post is still what you believe and not how you came to that belief. Most people do not see the evil you see in religion, something must have happened to cause you to hate so much. Incidentally hate only damages the person who holds it. Does nothing to the hated object. That’s why most people don’t hate, or at least try not to hate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-rain-proof-of-god/426419.md?page=5)