# "Pray to End Abortion" ... so what exactly are they praying FOR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055 "2010-03-11T01:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/81 "2010-03-16T12:27:03Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Interesting. Show me the one of those cites that talks about contraceptives and preventing pregnancy. Show me the the one that talks about how they’re going to help the mother raise that child (and no, an overnight shelter where they can house the mother while they browbeat her into not getting abortion doesn’t count as “helping raise the child”, sorry). Might want to read for content. I already gave you this [cite](http://financial-assistance.crisispregnancy.com/), as well as [this one](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122851804). You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him click on a link. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/82 "2010-03-16T12:41:39Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If God is all knowing, loving etc. then prayer is unnecessary. If My children nagged me about things I already know it needs I would be insulted! To tell a father." feed your child", when the child has just finished a good meal would be an insult to the father. To give a child something the father knows would be harmful to the child, or to ask the father to give it would be insulting! > > I would not give my child anything that would harm it or hold back anything I knew was good for that child and I sure would expect a Good all knowing God to be better than me! Prayer is simply talking to your heavenly Father, that’s about it. What person would go through live not talking to their earthly father? What earthly father would expect no communication from his child at all? It is the relationship that God wants, and what we need. God shows us that He is willing to provide all our needs without asking in Luke 12:28-32 when we follow His instruction (seek the Kingdom). But we can still talk and ask Him for things. Also part of our training is that we are given His power, and the way that power is used is by prayer. He wants us to bring thing to His attention, and because of our caring for this issue He will care for this issue. If we are uncaring, He may continue the condition till we are ready to care. > [@](#): > > You forgot to add that you would pray for all the abused and neglected children, and those starving to death in Africa and other 3d world countries.I think food, clothes, shelter, health services, emotinal needs, etc,would be better and do more good than prayer. Who do you think the children passed through the fire (aborted) are? The cycle starts at abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/83 "2010-03-16T13:44:38Z")
They are praying that every woman facing an unwanted pregnancy will see it as a “temporary inconvenience” to be carried to term and to raise the child as a single mother or better yet, give it to a married Christain couple. When you are told "“Every woman regrets an abortion. No woman regrets adoption” and “Having your child murdered by adoptive parents is better than having an abortion”:eek: you realize how fucked-up some of these anti-abortionists really are. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/84 "2010-03-16T16:58:17Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > No I have never done so, and I don’t feel lead to ‘protest’ as such. I do really hate those places and believe they are the places where children are sacrificed to Baal, thrown into fire, and those are the children who are ‘passed through the fire’ as described in scripture. I do believe those children suffer intensely, I also believe the women are deceived and therefor blameless, but suffering because they are eternally connected to their child. I’m pretty confident that abortion doctors do not pray to any diety named Baal and that they don’t pass living tissue through fire. You may believe what you wish, but how do you expect me to respond to things that you say are happening, when I can tell by looking that they aren’t? That said, it’s nice that you keep your hatred to yourself. I do appreciate that, seriously. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Contraception is close to 100% and is pretty much almost totally destigmatized already, and at very low cost, free for many, esp at the lower income range. How is that effecting abortion? Are you praying for abortion to end by this, how is it working as we approach it?- we are getting close to your prayers being answered. Well, I don’t _pray_, persay, since it’s literally talking to the wall (which is pretty nonresponsive, being a wall). That said, I’m pretty certain that if contraceptives were 100% effective and used 100% of the time (when pregnancy wasn’t actually desired), then there would be no or nearly no abortions. (Cases when ladies ‘chicken out’ partway through and change their mind from a deliberate choice to conceive could still happen, but one would hope not too often.) As we are still seeing lots of abortions and desires for abortions, that would prove that contraception effectiveness/use wasn’t at 100%, wouldn’t it? So there’s still a ways to go. Though, there _is_ an easier way: as mentioned, God could selectively close the wombs of women who don’t want to get pregnant. If he doesn’t like abortions, he should actually get right on that. It would be the best of all worlds. > [@kanicbird](#): > > I also feel protesting is the wrong way, though it may be a chance to reach the heart of a woman and child (fetus), but in general the way is Love. I’m not thinking that protesters are likely to get through to fetuses, both because fetuses can’t read the signs, and, well, there’s this opaque wall of flesh in the way that makes it so they can’t read the signs even if they _could_. And even for the women, I actually don’t think _any_ protest can “reach the heart” - scare away people by looking threatening and evil, maybe, but not persuade in a positive manner. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Prayer is simply talking to your heavenly Father, that’s about it. What person would go through live not talking to their earthly father? What earthly father would expect no communication from his child at all? > > It is the relationship that God wants, and what we need. God shows us that He is willing to provide all our needs without asking in Luke 12:28-32 when we follow His instruction (seek the Kingdom). But we can still talk and ask Him for things. > > Also part of our training is that we are given His power, and the way that power is used is by prayer. He wants us to bring thing to His attention, and because of our caring for this issue He will care for this issue. If we are uncaring, He may continue the condition till we are ready to care. When I was a kid I tried praying some. No god ever talked back to me. If my earthly father refused to talk to me, no matter how many times I volleyed towards him, eventually all the balls would be in his court. Such it is with God. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Who do you think the children passed through the fire (aborted) are? The cycle starts at abortion. I think already-aborted fetuses have no earthly needs at all. And what cycle are you talking about here - any cycle that includes abortion _starts_ at conception. Or sex. Or the birth of the people who had sex. Or their conception. Or their parent’s having sex… It’s a cycle. It can be stopped at various points, the three most currently palatable ones being sex, conception, and pre-birth abortion. (You could also kill the people between birth and sexual maturity, but there’s a near-complete concensus against that as policy.) Of the three possibilities, asking people to abstain from sex has aways failed as a general policy, and abortions are a point of heavy disagreement. But what about conception? That’s God’s fault. No fetus is aborted unless it is first conceived; by initiating unwanted conceptions, God is _causing_ all abortions, right? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/85 "2010-03-17T09:41:37Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Perhaps if the pople who protest the clinics etc. used the correct term;‘Pro-birth’ (because all people I know that are pro-choice are also pro-life; they are pro-personhood) it would be more honest. An egg is not a chicken even if it is fertile and an embryo of a horse ,sheep,cow, (or any animal) is not the animal so biologicaly a human fertile egg is not a person and you can’t murder an egg, fertile or not!. Human life is in a man’s sperm and woman’s ova, and it is the same life that is in every human. Life began eons ago. What the @#$% does that have to do with what you quoted? And who died and made you arbiter of terminology? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/86 "2010-03-17T12:54:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Prayer is simply talking to your heavenly Father, that’s about it. What person would go through live not talking to their earthly father? What earthly father would expect no communication from his child at all? > > It is the relationship that God wants, and what we need. God shows us that He is willing to provide all our needs without asking in Luke 12:28-32 when we follow His instruction (seek the Kingdom). But we can still talk and ask Him for things. > > Also part of our training is that we are given His power, and the way that power is used is by prayer. He wants us to bring thing to His attention, and because of our caring for this issue He will care for this issue. If we are uncaring, He may continue the condition till we are ready to care. > > Who do you think the children passed through the fire (aborted) are? The cycle starts at abortion. If I could read my childs mind it wouldn’t have to speak. It would be a silent communication( and a one way conversation to a child wouldn’t help) if a child asked me a question and I didn’t answer the child would be confused at best! You believe in a god that needs things brought to his attention a powerful all knowing god would not. Your god is not all knowing, powerful, or loving as you come across to me. Humans state that God needs prayer etc. and humans do not know, quoting the words of humans are not necessarily what God wants. I do not believe a loving being would have a partially formed child go through a fire unless he was a very cruel being, surely not a good father. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/87 "2010-03-17T12:59:14Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > What the @#$% does that have to do with what you quoted? And who died and made you arbiter of terminology? I do not know which quote you are referring to, and if a person is really pro-life they think first of the people already living and look past just Birth.Too many do not! I guess since you seem so angry, the only person who made me arbiter of terminology is you. I have to wonder why it angers you so..is it guilt? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/88 "2010-03-18T00:13:42Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I do not know which quote you are referring to The one you quoted. Or was that randomly selected? > [@](#): > > and if a person is really pro-life they think first of the people already living and look past just Birth.Too many do not! You know this how? Is it your Spider-sense? > [@](#): > > I guess since you seem so angry, the only person who made me arbiter of terminology is you. I have to wonder why it angers you so..is it guilt? Um, over what exactly? My self-evident animus toward all you born people? You guys are kind of creepy, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/89 "2010-03-18T12:31:27Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > The one you quoted. Or was that randomly selected?You know this how? Is it your Spider-sense?Um, over what exactly? My self-evident animus toward all you born people? You guys are kind of creepy, frankly. First of all I do not know what quote you are talking about. I made some statements but don’t recall any quotes. In my opinion if a person wants to force a woman to bring every egg to a full grown baby then do little or nothing to help her care for it, raise, and educate it to adult hood they are just pro-birth. You of course are intitled to you own opinion and your anger seems to show you have a nerve that has been hit! I do not let someone else define me. So I am not angry with you, or people who disagree with me. What is spider sense? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/90 "2010-03-18T14:01:50Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > First of all I do not know what quote you are talking about. This one, persumably - > [@monavis](#): > > Perhaps if the pople who protest the clinics etc. used the correct term;‘Pro-birth’ (because all people I know that are pro-choice are also pro-life; they are pro-personhood) it would be more honest. An egg is not a chicken even if it is fertile and an embryo of a horse ,sheep,cow, (or any animal) is not the animal so biologicaly a human fertile egg is not a person and you can’t murder an egg, fertile or not!. Human life is in a man’s sperm and woman’s ova, and it is the same life that is in every human. Life began eons ago. What relation does this bear to the discussion? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/91 "2010-03-19T00:43:39Z")
Shodan as I under stood it, a quote is something I would use that someone else had said. I gave my opinion. I was answering Stratocster. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/92 "2010-03-19T02:24:55Z")
God almighty, this is way more difficult than it should be. monavis, look at post #72, the one you posted. See that little-boxed in part at the top of the post? The one that has “Quote:” on top of it, and “Originally posted by Stratocaster” just inside the little boxy thing? That would be the quote. Again, the thing that says “Quote” right above it. You quoted me, and I asked what the @#$% your response had to do with what you quoted (from me). I suspect at this point that the fact that you actually quoted me escaped your scrutiny, the way it sometimes escapes my toddler nephew’s scrutiny that he forgot to put his pants on. These things happen, we can move on. I hope that clarifies things for you. Oh, and Spider-sense is a pro-life curseword, but only we know the meaning, and I’m not telling. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/93 "2010-03-19T13:30:43Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > God almighty, this is way more difficult than it should be. monavis, look at post #72, the one you posted. See that little-boxed in part at the top of the post? The one that has “Quote:” on top of it, and “Originally posted by Stratocaster” just inside the little boxy thing? That would be the quote. Again, the thing that says “Quote” right above it. > > You quoted me, and I asked what the @#$% your response had to do with what you quoted (from me). I suspect at this point that the fact that you actually quoted me escaped your scrutiny, the way it sometimes escapes my toddler nephew’s scrutiny that he forgot to put his pants on. These things happen, we can move on. I hope that clarifies things for you. > > Oh, and Spider-sense is a pro-life curseword, but only we know the meaning, and I’m not telling. Thank you, I understand now. You are acting closed minded and do not want to hear any opinion but your own. You apparently didn’t understand me, as you asked what that was supposed to mean, I guess we both have the same problem understanding in some ways! 😛 I get Spider-sense too, by your discription not worth paying attention to. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/94 "2010-03-19T21:17:57Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Though, there _is_ an easier way: as mentioned, God could selectively close the wombs of women who don’t want to get pregnant. If he doesn’t like abortions, he should actually get right on that. It would be the best of all worlds. Some wombs are closed, but God’s plan is ‘life’ and that comes through the woman, I personally believe that is a great gift of God (not ‘from’ God, but a ‘ability’ or ‘aspect’ of God Himself) given to woman. Salvation for women comes from childbearing Tim 2:15, so it is a very important thing for women to find out how this aspect of God in themselves is suppose to work. It is a learning process, and rejecting the lies and accepting that motherhood is a beautiful thing, perhaps the most beautiful thing God has created in woman. Abortion delays this learning, and makes it much much harder IMHO. > [@](#): > > I’m not thinking that protesters are likely to get through to fetuses, both because fetuses can’t read the signs, and, well, there’s this opaque wall of flesh in the way that makes it so they can’t read the signs even if they could. And even for the women, I actually don’t think any protest can “reach the heart” - scare away people by looking threatening and evil, maybe, but not persuade in a positive manner. Have you ever felt the presents of another person, the touch of another person, it’s something more then just mechanical, there is a soul to soul connection, this is the same with fetuses, they can feel and the person praying can feel them and connect and pray for them. > [@](#): > > When I was a kid I tried praying some. No god ever talked back to me. If my earthly father refused to talk to me, no matter how many times I volleyed towards him, eventually all the balls would be in his court. Such it is with God. We can talk ‘spiritually’, mothers sometimes know what their child is trying to say before they can talk. At an early stage we may be trying to spiritually talk to our earthly parents, many times they don’t respond, because they have learned to speak vocally. One can conclude that your earthly parents were not talking to you, but it was you didn’t understand their method of communicating to you, this is the same, God speaks usually non-verbally, this does not mean He is not speaking. > [@](#): > > I think already-aborted fetuses have no earthly needs at all. And what cycle are you talking about here - any cycle that includes abortion _starts_ at conception. Or sex. Or the birth of the people who had sex. Or their conception. Or their parent’s having sex… The cycle is abandonment of a person, life itself never begins or ends but is part of one spirit, a child is directly part of the spirit of the parents. When a child is abandoned, as in the case of abortion, that interjects abandonment, and other bad things, like starvation, into humanity and humanity suffers. > [@](#): > > It’s a cycle. It can be stopped at various points, the three most currently palatable ones being sex, conception, and pre-birth abortion. (You could also kill the people between birth and sexual maturity, but there’s a near-complete concensus against that as policy.) Of the three possibilities, asking people to abstain from sex has aways failed as a general policy, and abortions are a point of heavy disagreement. But what about conception? That’s God’s fault. No fetus is aborted unless it is first conceived; by initiating unwanted conceptions, God is _causing_ all abortions, right? God wants and desires children, instead of abstinence why not uphold motherhood? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/95 "2010-03-19T22:06:22Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Some wombs are closed, but God’s plan is ‘life’ and that comes through the woman, I personally believe that is a great gift of God (not ‘from’ God, but a ‘ability’ or ‘aspect’ of God Himself) given to woman. > > Salvation for women comes from childbearing Tim 2:15, so it is a very important thing for women to find out how this aspect of God in themselves is suppose to work. It is a learning process, and rejecting the lies and accepting that motherhood is a beautiful thing, perhaps the most beautiful thing God has created in woman. Abortion delays this learning, and makes it much much harder IMHO. Some women will seek an abortion if they get pregnant. God know who these women are in advance. Leaving their wombs open is like giving a child a loaded gun - you KNOW it will end badly, and it’s YOUR fault when it does, because if you had made sure they were firing blanks all the bad stuff would have been avoided. Instead women who don’t want kids get pregant and abort; and some who deperately want kids are infertile. The god who’s managing all this is clearly an idiot. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Have you ever felt the presents of another person, the touch of another person, it’s something more then just mechanical, there is a soul to soul connection, this is the same with fetuses, they can feel and the person praying can feel them and connect and pray for them. ‘Presence.’ And no, this has never happened to me, and I don’t believe it happens to anybody. > [@kanicbird](#): > > We can talk ‘spiritually’, mothers sometimes know what their child is trying to say before they can talk. At an early stage we may be trying to spiritually talk to our earthly parents, many times they don’t respond, because they have learned to speak vocally. One can conclude that your earthly parents were not talking to you, but it was you didn’t understand their method of communicating to you, this is the same, God speaks usually non-verbally, this does not mean He is not speaking. Nobody talks ‘spritually’. Babies who can’t talk communicate with…wait for it… non-verbal cues! (And are still misinterpreted a lot anyway.) And unless God is an idiot, he knows how to speak verbally too. Even if there were such a thing as spiritual communication, God would be an idiot to use it with a person he knows cannot understand it, when he knows another way of speaking that the person _can_ understand. If my father were to speak to me in spanish, knowing that I don’t understand it, there are only two possible explanations: he is not really trying to communicate, or he’s a blinking moron. > [@kanicbird](#): > > The cycle is abandonment of a person, life itself never begins or ends but is part of one spirit, a child is directly part of the spirit of the parents. When a child is abandoned, as in the case of abortion, that interjects abandonment, and other bad things, like starvation, into humanity and humanity suffers. Erryeah. Your theology is unique. I do not agree with it in the slightest (and know of no one, on the entire planet, who does). And you cannot convince me of it. > [@kanicbird](#): > > God wants and desires children, instead of abstinence why not uphold motherhood? If God sends a fetus to a woman who he knows will abort it then he wants _dead_ children. (Well, dead fetuses anyway.) Your personal beliefs notwithstanding, some women don’t want to be mothers, and there are women we don’t _want_ to be mothers (like, fourteen year olds). Some of these women abstain. Some fail to abstain, and instead abort. If God doesn’t _like_ abortions, then he should avoid these women getting pregnant at all. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/96 "2010-03-21T13:34:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Some women will seek an abortion if they get pregnant. God know who these women are in advance. Leaving their wombs open is like giving a child a loaded gun - you KNOW it will end badly, and it’s YOUR fault when it does, because if you had made sure they were firing blanks all the bad stuff would have been avoided. God allows us to go different ways then His, but His is the only ‘way’ it works, which is the path of Love, which includes Loving your child. We learn, unfortunately, by making mistakes and seeing where those paths lead, which requires that path to be open, in this case sex without caring for the child created. Closed wombs are a step further, and is IMHO worse causing a empty spiritual feeling and a spiritually unfulfilled life. > [@](#): > > Instead women who don’t want kids get pregant and abort; and some who deperately want kids are infertile. The god who’s managing all this is clearly an idiot. IMHO some of the infertile requested it, perhaps they had a abortion in and suffered and asked God to close their womb so they wouldn’t have to go through it again, He does in their ‘next life’ at which time they cry out to have their child. God does listen to us. > [@](#): > > ‘Presence.’ And no, this has never happened to me, and I don’t believe it happens to anybody. > > Nobody talks ‘spritually’. Babies who can’t talk communicate with…wait for it… non-verbal cues! (And are still misinterpreted a lot anyway.) Spiritual communication is not just between child and mother, but people can communicate this way, over vast distances. It is much more then non-verbal cues, actually non-verbal cues are just a physical manifestation of spiritual communication, a ‘shadow’. The real communication is spiritual, and does not require non-verbal cues. This is something one must find and experience for themselves. > [@](#): > > And unless God is an idiot, he knows how to speak verbally too. Even if there were such a thing as spiritual communication, God would be an idiot to use it with a person he knows cannot understand it, So is a human parent a idiot when they talk to their newborn infant? God is no different, the parent can pick up the infant and hold them, the infant understand that, why not just stop at that? > [@](#): > > Erryeah. Your theology is unique. I do not agree with it in the slightest (and know of no one, on the entire planet, who does). And you cannot convince me of it. It’s not my job to convince you, that is God’s job, mine is just to serve Him. > [@](#): > > If God sends a fetus to a woman who he knows will abort it then he wants _dead_ children. (Well, dead fetuses anyway.) > > [ Your personal beliefs notwithstanding, some women don’t want to be mothers, and there are women we don’t _want_ to be mothers (like, fourteen year olds). Some of these women abstain. Some fail to abstain, and instead abort. If God doesn’t _like_ abortions, then he should avoid these women getting pregnant at all. God never wanted children to suffer for the sins of their parents, but it is part of our world. In the end every mother will raise their children, every aborted child will come home. We just flipped to order around, but the end result is the same after much suffering. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/97 "2010-03-22T12:06:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God allows us to go different ways then His, but His is the only ‘way’ it works, which is the path of Love, which includes Loving your child. We learn, unfortunately, by making mistakes and seeing where those paths lead, which requires that path to be open, in this case sex without caring for the child created. > > Closed wombs are a step further, and is IMHO worse causing a empty spiritual feeling and a spiritually unfulfilled life. > > IMHO some of the infertile requested it, perhaps they had a abortion in and suffered and asked God to close their womb so they wouldn’t have to go through it again, He does in their ‘next life’ at which time they cry out to have their child. God does listen to us. > > Spiritual communication is not just between child and mother, but people can communicate this way, over vast distances. It is much more then non-verbal cues, actually non-verbal cues are just a physical manifestation of spiritual communication, a ‘shadow’. The real communication is spiritual, and does not require non-verbal cues. This is something one must find and experience for themselves. > > So is a human parent a idiot when they talk to their newborn infant? God is no different, the parent can pick up the infant and hold them, the infant understand that, why not just stop at that? > > It’s not my job to convince you, that is God’s job, mine is just to serve Him. > > God never wanted children to suffer for the sins of their parents, but it is part of our world. In the end every mother will raise their children, every aborted child will come home. We just flipped to order around, but the end result is the same after much suffering. By stating as fact what God wants, you are not being truthful, as you do not know the mind of God, (just what you believe is God’s mind) and it doesn’t make sense. God must be smarter, kinder,than that! Even a human is better than that, and God would have to know more, be more loving, and compassionate than a human, or would not be a supreme being, just another Joe! If God didn’t want children to suffer for the sins of their parents then he could just as well not let, or make it happen! Since God seems to be in charge, as you state, then he wanted people to suffer or He could have done a better job of instructing his children. We can only judge actions as a human since we have human minds, and as human’s we would put such a father in jail! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055/98 "2010-03-22T18:49:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God allows us to go different ways then His, but His is the only ‘way’ it works, which is the path of Love, which includes Loving your child. We learn, unfortunately, by making mistakes and seeing where those paths lead, which requires that path to be open, in this case sex without caring for the child created. > > Closed wombs are a step further, and is IMHO worse causing a empty spiritual feeling and a spiritually unfulfilled life. It is simply not the case that having sex without having a baby necessarily causes everyone to have an empty spiritual feeling, etc. You are dead flat completely wrong - this bears only the vaguest tangential relationship to reality, in that people who have sex because they want to have babies are (non-spiritually) disappointed if it doesn’t take. You might as well say that when people have extramarital sex, they burst into flames five minutes later and die. It’s equally credible. > [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO some of the infertile requested it, perhaps they had a abortion in and suffered and asked God to close their womb so they wouldn’t have to go through it again, He does in their ‘next life’ at which time they cry out to have their child. God does listen to us. Wow, your god’s a passive-aggressive asshole. I’ve heard of nicer demons. Also, reincarnation! Funny how everyone else who reads the bible managed to overlook _that_. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Spiritual communication is not just between child and mother, but people can communicate this way, over vast distances. It is much more then non-verbal cues, actually non-verbal cues are just a physical manifestation of spiritual communication, a ‘shadow’. The real communication is spiritual, and does not require non-verbal cues. This is something one must find and experience for themselves. Telepathy! Pull the other one. > [@kanicbird](#): > > So is a human parent a idiot when they talk to their newborn infant? God is no different, the parent can pick up the infant and hold them, the infant understand that, why not just stop at that? Any human who talks to an infant and expects the infant to understand them, and thinks they have asatisfied their obligation to inform the infant of important things, is a complete and total moron. A complete blinking idiot. Absolutely. People talk to infants for other reasons - mostly relating to education. Which doesn’t work if the infant can’t hear the speech at all. You know, the way I can’t hear your fictional spiritual speech at all. > [@kanicbird](#): > > It’s not my job to convince you, that is God’s job, mine is just to serve Him. Then stop trying. > [@kanicbird](#): > > God never wanted children to suffer for the sins of their parents, but it is part of our world. In the end every mother will raise their children, every aborted child will come home. We just flipped to order around, but the end result is the same after much suffering. Whatever, dude. I still think it’d be better if your god wasn’t going around _causing_ the suffering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pray-to-end-abortion-so-what-exactly-are-they-praying-for/532055.md?page=4)