# Prayer before group meal at the office? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 19, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890 "2009-12-19T21:38:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/21 "2009-12-20T04:06:23Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > I just changed jobs. Wednesday was my first day at the client site. I’m a contractor working on a DoD project in Northern Virginia. I hope that’s not too specific. 😉 > > Friday there was a pizza lunch for the project. Before we tore into the food one of the bosses on the government side said a few words about the projects progress in the last year, and then asked someone to lead the blessing over the food. Alarm bells. You might want to read up on this —\> [**GUIDELINES ON RELIGIOUS EXERCISE AND RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN THE FEDERAL WORKPLACE**](http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19970819-3275.html). (Sorry about the all caps. It’s an official NARA document link rom the White House, dated August 1997.) ---
**Author:** ![gardentraveler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gardentraveler/32/3576_2.png) [@gardentraveler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gardentraveler)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/22 "2009-12-20T04:22:34Z")
Very odd. I work for the State of Ohio and have many colleagues who are very religious and some who pause to say their own (silent) blessing before eating at a group meal, but I’ve never experienced anything like that. Ick. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/23 "2009-12-20T04:33:38Z")
I’m probably weird, but for some reason, I’d have seen nothing odd about a prayer over my group’s Thanksgiving dinner, but prayer over a pizza meal seems awkward. That said, in general, I approve of prayer before meals, even if I don’t always do it myself, so I wouldn’t be put out by a group prayer, but if you aren’t in a religously based business, it seems likely to annoy/offend someone and thus be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/24 "2009-12-20T05:24:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > I’ll have to brush up on my Hebrew before the next such event. Or the [post=11106706]Yiddish curses my grandmother used to use[/post], and pass them off as a prayer. Or would that be wrong? 😃 Don’t go with the blessings over food. They’re so short your coworkers may not even notice. Wait until everyone’s done eating, then let loose with the _[birkat hamazon](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/birkat_hamazon.pdf)_\* (aka “grace after meals”), including all four blessings and the _harachaman_ prayers. Prompt your co-workers to join in the responses. Act disappointed when they don’t. \*Warning: PDF, but not too large. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/25 "2009-12-20T05:37:33Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Don’t go with the blessings over food. They’re so short your coworkers may not even notice. Wait until everyone’s done eating, then let loose with the _[birkat hamazon](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/birkat_hamazon.pdf)_\* (aka “grace after meals”), including all four blessings and the _harachaman_ prayers. Prompt your co-workers to join in the responses. Act disappointed when they don’t. > > \*Warning: PDF, but not too large. But if he sings the blessings in a nice loud voice with a lot of feeling (our Cantor could knock the roof off the shul) they’d notice. To answer the original question, I work in high tech, with a lot of diversity, and anyone trying this would be met about the way a creationist would be welcomed in GD. Rolling eyes, definitely, laughing, possibly. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/26 "2009-12-20T08:21:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I would have broken into a loud chant praising the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Noodly Goodness. \*Our Father, who art in pesto Alfredo be thy name Thy kingdom come, Al dente done, on forks as it is on chopsticks Give us this plate with garlic bread be sure to give us napkins As we give napkins to those who impress us And lead me not to Olive Garden but delivery from Carraba’s. For thine is the garlic, the marinara and the oregano Forever and ever rAmen \* ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/27 "2009-12-20T09:10:51Z")
My late BILs favorite grace was: Bless us oh Lord and these Thy leftovers Which we are about to receive from Thy microwave Through Saran-Wrap and plastic covers A-men ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/28 "2009-12-20T13:20:00Z")
It’s stories like this that remind me not how much we have in common with America, but how little. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/29 "2009-12-20T13:45:49Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > \*Our Father, who art in pesto > Alfredo be thy name > Thy kingdom come, Al dente done, > on forks as it is on chopsticks > Give us this plate with garlic bread > be sure to give us napkins > As we give napkins to those who impress us > And lead me not to Olive Garden > but delivery from Carraba’s. > For thine is the garlic, > the marinara and the oregano > Forever and ever > rAmen > \* That. Is. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/30 "2009-12-20T14:02:15Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > \*Our Father, who art in pesto > Alfredo be thy name > Thy kingdom come, Al dente done, > on forks as it is on chopsticks > Give us this plate with garlic bread > be sure to give us napkins > As we give napkins to those who impress us > And lead me not to Olive Garden > but delivery from Carraba’s. > For thine is the garlic, > the marinara and the oregano > Forever and ever > rAmen > \* He shoots! He scores!!! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/31 "2009-12-20T14:19:17Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Alarm bells. > > You might want to read up on this —\> [**GUIDELINES ON RELIGIOUS EXERCISE AND RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN THE FEDERAL WORKPLACE**](http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19970819-3275.html). > > (Sorry about the all caps. It’s an official NARA document link rom the White House, dated August 1997.) Since that’s pre-GWB, I’m not sure if there have been changes, but here is probably the most relevant part: > [@](#): > > (a) At the conclusion of each weekly staff meeting and before anyone leaves the room, an employee leads a prayer in which nearly all employees participate. All employees are required to attend the weekly meeting. The supervisor neither explicitly recognizes the prayer as an official function nor explicitly states that no one need participate in the prayer. This course of conduct is not permitted unless under all the circumstances a reasonable observer would conclude that the prayer was not officially endorsed. OTOH: > [@](#): > > (g) During lunch, certain employees gather on their own time for prayer and Bible study in an empty conference room that employees are generally free to use on a first-come, first-served basis. Such a gathering does not constitute religious harassment even if other employees with different views on how to pray might feel excluded or ask that the group be disbanded. So you’re somewhere between these two scenarios, much more like the first than the second. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/32 "2009-12-20T15:38:33Z")
That’s just wrong. Regardless of what the rules are if my workplace did that not only would I get up and leave but it would be the last time they see me anywhere besides my desk. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/33 "2009-12-20T16:07:54Z")
May I propose the blessing used at my mother’s parish? For this bread, for this food, we praise thee, we praise thee, for this bread, for this food, we praise thee, Our Lord. Extend your hand, your hand, your hand, fold your elbow, elbow, elbow, and the meeeeal is all bless’d now, (repeat). Of course the gestures for the second paragraph must be as ample as possible. So you extend your hand fully, fold your elbow fast enough to need to be careful not to hit your own eye, and then extend it again over the table on a sweeping gesture which might send any bottles a-tumblin’ if you weren’t standing up. Oh, and it must all be chanted at the top of your lungs. I joke with the Franciscans that, judging by that blessing, they reckon God’s both hard of hearing and shortsighted. They say they merely reckon He gets distracted easily and needs His attention tugged back to the business at hand. I did use it one time a boss of mine asked for someone to bless the meal, then I had to repeat it until everybody had learned it 😃 Even she got into the spirit by the third repetition. It’s the only time I’ve ever found myself in a situation like that in, oh… 15 years and some 12 countries? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/34 "2009-12-20T16:15:24Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Alarm bells. > > You might want to read up on this —\> [**GUIDELINES ON RELIGIOUS EXERCISE AND RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN THE FEDERAL WORKPLACE**](http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19970819-3275.html). > > (Sorry about the all caps. It’s an official NARA document link rom the White House, dated August 1997.) It is also a document giving guidelines for the Federal Workplace and specifically states: > [@](#): > > Nor do the Guidelines define the rights and responsibilities of non-governmental employers – including religious employers – and their employees. So I wouldn’t use it as much of a yardstick as to what is permissible in the general workplace. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/35 "2009-12-20T16:19:08Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Happens all the time at the main office of my employer, and not only at meals. These people pray to open conferences, they pray before management meetings, they pray for sick coworkers, you name it, they pray for it. Goes with living in the bible belt. My wife’s company is like this. They were genuinely surprised and dismayed when she refused to lead the group in prayer before a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/36 "2009-12-20T16:58:46Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > \*Our Father, who art in pesto > Alfredo be thy name > Thy kingdom come, Al dente done, > on forks as it is on chopsticks > Give us this plate with garlic bread > be sure to give us napkins > As we give napkins to those who impress us > And lead me not to Olive Garden > but delivery from Carraba’s. > For thine is the garlic, > the marinara and the oregano > Forever and ever > rAmen > \* Threadwinner!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/37 "2009-12-20T17:32:29Z")
What, no mention of _Yubba dub dub Thanks for the grub Yaaaayyy God!_? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/38 "2009-12-20T18:07:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What, no mention of > _Yubba dub dub > Thanks for the grub > Yaaaayyy God!_? I assumed it was a given and I couldn’t find a fast cite. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/39 "2009-12-20T18:22:28Z")
**Washoe** , I just nominated that for [Awesome-est Post of the Year](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=542467). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890/40 "2009-12-20T18:26:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > **Washoe** , I just nominated that for [Awesome-est Post of the Year](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=542467). Do you all realize that **Washoe** ’s poem is probably not his original creation? Google it, and you’ll see it’s been around since at least 2006. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayer-before-group-meal-at-the-office/521890.md?page=3)