# Prayers that Actually Work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778 "2001-06-22T13:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/261 "2001-07-12T21:24:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > > > One really should not believe in something that cannot be shown to be real. > > > > **Shown to whom?** > > To reasonable people. \*\* Please can you tell me how you define ‘reasonable people’, seriously. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > **Despite numerous attempts, I’ve never been able to grasp calculus, it simply doesn’t make sense to me at all, no matter how hard I try, I’m not sure if it could be _proven_ to be real to me, although of course I accept that it can be _demonstrated_, but proof and demonstration aren’t the same thing.** > > They aren’t? > > You mean in spite of the fact that [calculus](http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=18919&tocid=0) is used to determine many useful things, like the orbits of planets and the paths of rockets in flight and the acceleration of falling objects in a gravity well, you think it’s possible they’re all just making it up just because _you_ can’t understand it? \*\*No, I have no problem in accepting that it’s true and it works,I just can’t get my head round it. It _feels_ like they are making it up though. The calculus analogy, like all analogies I suppose, is far from perfect. Anyway (and feel free to misinterpret this as me backing away) as I’ve said in other threads, I think it’s daft to expect tangible proof of anything spiritual, because the spiritual is by definition intangible, you may equate this to it being non-existent, others may not agree. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/262 "2001-07-12T22:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s nothing wrong in saying, “We don’t know at this time.” Ya’know, I think that’s why a lot of people turn to religion - they’re just uncomfortable with “I don’t know” as a answer. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/263 "2001-07-12T23:10:19Z")
I would define reasonable people as people who listen to reason and use reason when evaluating information and who make decisions based on facts. Reasonable people wiil believe the truth even if it’s uncomfortable. (“I don’t want to believe my father is dead because I don’t _want_ him to be dead. But since this is the truth, I _will_ believe it; I _must_.”) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2001, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/264 "2001-07-13T07:54:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bnorton \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > There’s nothing wrong in saying, “We don’t know at this time.” > > Ya’know, I think that’s why a lot of people turn to religion - they’re just uncomfortable with “I don’t know” as a answer. > > \*\* This _seems to be_ what nearly every atheist thinks, but I honestly think it’s a misconception, I think most believers would argue that they aren’t just grasping at straws in order to avoid unpalatable truths, and (IMHO) those that are are not doing so consciously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778.md?page=13)