# Prayers that Actually Work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778 "2001-06-22T13:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/41 "2001-06-25T06:04:51Z")
berdollos Ignore these guys who are trying to make you believe prayer doesn’t work. What I have been using lately is the phrase “My Lord Jesus Christ have mercy upon me a sinner.” You can use it anytime you feel overwhelmed and at the beginning of your longer prayers. I read about it and it was described as an arrow-like prayer since it is short, quick, and to the point. Most importantly though is to have open communication with God during your prayers. Tell Him everything, ask Him anything and be humble before Him. If you ask God for something and it is according to His will, you will get it. Remember to be patient. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/42 "2001-06-25T09:27:37Z")
I’m not playing dumb. Unfortunately, David might not be either. 😉 Being dense is saying things like, “It is impossible to use the word ‘impossible’ in a sentence,” or “You cannot prove a negative (like this one, for example).’” The repetition of an assertion a million times by a million people does not make it true. I’m not the one being dense. I am stating my case plainly. If I wanted to be dense, I would make reference to my assumptions and prejudices about other posters being vague when in fact I myself am being vague about such things as undefined gods. ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/43 "2001-06-25T11:23:26Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Edlyn \* \*\* > [@](#): > > [Look here](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1472/OurPrayer.html), then let me know if you _really_ want to discuss this. > \*\* Ummm…this was supposed to prove WHAT exactly? It’s a situation exactly as I described. And? -L ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/44 "2001-06-25T11:28:03Z")
Mambo said: > [@](#): > > Ignore these guys who are trying to make you believe prayer doesn’t work. Why did I get a picture of the Wizard of Oz as soon as I saw those words? But why should he ignore those of us who are telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/45 "2001-06-25T12:27:57Z")
If prayers work in the way the OP suggests, then God is either weak-willed or capricious, neither of which is a comfortable thought. (I’m specifically **excluding** prayers-as-worship/praise and only discussing prayers-as-magic) Imagine, for example, the following exchange: Me: God? Why is my cat dying? **GOD: IT WAS THE CAT’S TIME TO GO AND I HOPE TO TEACH YOU ABOUT LOSS. IT’S PART OF MY PLAN TO BRING YOU CLOSER TO ME.** Me: But…I don’t _want_ my cat to die! **GOD: THOUGH IT DOESN’T SEEM SO, MY SON, IT WILL BE GOOD FOR YOU _AND_ YOUR CAT IN THE LONG RUN.** Me: Pleeeeeaaaazzzee?! Pleeeeeaaaaze?! **GOD: I’M SORRY FOR YOUR PAIN. I WILL HELP YOU GO THROUGH IT.** Me: Please, you who art in heaven, hallowed be your name. Please!! **GOD: OH. ALL. RIGHT. THE CAT LIVES.\ BUT IF YOU DO THAT AGAIN, I’LL SMITE YOU.** Me: Kewl! It works! Hey God! Can I have an ice-cream cone? \*\*GOD: NO \*\* Me: Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone?Can I have an ice-cream cone? **GOD: AAARGH! SHUT UP ALREADY!** Me: Please, you who art in heaven, hallowed be your name. Please!! Can I have an ice-cream cone? **GOD: FINE. HERE’S YOUR STUPID ICE CREAM CONE. \_WHY DID I MAKE THEM SELF-AWARE? NEXT TIME IT’S PLANKTON ALL THE WAY._** I mean, c’mon. Either God has a plan, in which case praying for stuff won’t change anything (besides, your praying and/or lack of praying are part of The Plan), or God is just winging it, which is a scary thought or God is a wimp, which may be worse. (We won’t get into the “There’s no God” arguement) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/46 "2001-06-25T12:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > \*\*Mambo said: > > > [@](#): > > > > Ignore these guys who are trying to make you believe prayer doesn’t work. > > Why did I get a picture of the Wizard of Oz as soon as I saw those words? > > But why should he ignore those of us who are telling the truth? \*\* And you’re _ **sure** _ it’s the truth, are you? ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/47 "2001-06-25T13:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > And you’re _ **sure** _ it’s the truth, are you? \*\* Well, as soon as I see a study that shows prayer works, I’ll start believing. And I don’t mean works in a “statistically significant” way - I mean works, period. The Bible makes it pretty clear that prayer isn’t supposed to be a hit or miss type of thing, but from my own life (warning: anecdotal) I can say he’s missed 99% of the time. But of course, that must be because my requests weren’t in his plan - which, as has been stated before, makes prayer for intercession completely meaningless. The amazing power of prayer to fail was just one more nail in the coffin for my belief in Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/48 "2001-06-25T15:11:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > But why should he ignore those of us who are telling the truth? \*\* Why? Because you are not telling him the truth. You guys are arguing a point you cannot argue. Since prayer is a faith-based activity, those who lack the faith cannot even begin to speculate on it. On the other hand, there are many, many people out there who have the faith and the experience to know that prayer works. It’s like someone that can’t drive saying that cars don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/49 "2001-06-25T15:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mambo \* > **What I have been using lately is the phrase “My Lord Jesus Christ have mercy upon me a sinner.” You can use it anytime you feel overwhelmed and at the beginning of your longer prayers.** What evidence do you have that your Lord Jesus Christ had mercy upon you, a sinner? ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/50 "2001-06-25T15:39:13Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Mambo \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Since prayer is a faith-based activity, those who lack the faith cannot even begin to speculate on it. On the other hand, there are many, many people out there who have the faith and the experience to know that prayer works. > \*\* This is a very condescending argument. For one thing, most of us who don’t believe in prayer ended up that way because at some point we DID believe and we now know it’s a myth. We’ve used logic to arrive at this conclusion, it’s not because we’re personally FLAWED that prayer doesn’t work. It’s because prayer doesn’t work. Along a similar vein, I’m curious to find out if you believe those of other faiths have the same chance of prayers being answered. Say, Muslims? Satan worshippers? If have a deep and abiding faith in the great god Pan and I pray to him to save my friend Jen from breast cancer, will my prayers be answered the same as the prayers to YOUR god? Certain native Americans used to believe that doing a rain dance caused it to rain. They had faith in this practice, and much of the time it worked. When it didn’t, they came up for explanations about why the rain god didn’t answer their cries for help. Are you praying to the same rain god? -L ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/51 "2001-06-25T15:43:17Z")
Edlyn wrote: > [@](#): > > [Look here](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1472/OurPrayer.html), then let me know if you _really_ want to discuss this. Yeah! Shame on all of you! How can you say prayers don’t work, when there’s a **cute little girl dying of cancer!** I mean, just _look_ at her. See how cute she is? If you don’t clap your hands and say you believe in fairies, she’ll die, and it’ll be _all your fault!_ But seriously, folks: Grasping at straws is an all-too-human survival mechanism. After all, if you’re at the end of your rope, one of those straws _might_ just save you, and you’ve got nothing to lose by trying. I know that if _my_ kid were dying of cancer (if I had a kid), and all the established routes of cancer treatment had been tried and had failed, I’d try everything fringe theory imaginable that might make my kid get better: prayer, laetril, coffee enemas, magnetic wristbands, thinking happy thoughts, you name it. But this does not mean that the things I try will actually _do any good_. What _will_ do good is learning as much as I can about how my kid’s cancer actually works, and maybe finding some medical researcher who has some insights into this particular cancer problem and having him perform some experiments on dissociated tumor tissue or lab mice with cancer or some such. Perhaps the researcher will actually come up with something useful. It’s a longshot, but the odds are better than if I just pick some unsubstantiated quack-cure at random – including prayer – and play Russian roulette with my kid’s health. I could imagine people a hundred years ago attesting to the power of prayer in curing their children of pneumonia. But which do you think saved more children from pneumonia: millions of all-night prayer sessions by the parents of afflicted children, or the invention of a way to mass-manufacture penicillin? (I chose pneumonia as an example here, not just because it’s something we’ve found a cure for, but because I contracted it **twice** during my childhood. It is no exaggeration to say that I would not be alive to post this on the SDMB, if not for penicillin.) Prayer might work. And it might not. It does not seem to work any better than blind chance. Attacking the problem with knowledge, though, pays off a heck of a lot more often than chance. It’s a much surer way to bet. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/52 "2001-06-25T15:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mambo \* > It’s like someone that can’t drive saying that cars don’t work. \*\* No offense, but this is one of the most patently ludicrous things I’ve ever read (aside from you “people without faith can’t understand prayer” argument - which, as a former devout Christian, I know is crap). People who can’t drive can go down to the motorway and see cars zooming along quite happily. Evidence that cars work. Of course, some cars break down, and no one denies this. It’s part of being a car and is not surprising. Prayer is supposed to work - God makes it quite clear that if you ask for something, you’ll get it, so long as it isn’t a selfish request. More often than not, you don’t get it. If you’d like to continue with your nonsensical car example, please point out a “freeway” where we can see prayer working. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/53 "2001-06-25T15:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > If you ask God for something and it is according to His will, you will get it. Remember to be patient. Well, if this isn’t a self-fufilling prophesy, I don’t know what is. “I’ll pray for bag of Doritos. If it works, prayer works, and if it doesn’t, prayer works (but not this time due to extenuating circumstances)” Huh? And if it’s part of his plan, do I still have to pray for the Doritos? I can pray to my cat with the same results; if I get what I want, the cat did it. If I don’t, it wasn’t in the cat’s plan. But at least the cat will let me stroke its soft, soft fur, and when has god ever done that for me? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/54 "2001-06-25T17:54:53Z")
A long term study out of UofBerkley, California, which started in 1965 has been following about 2800 people. Some of it’s conclusions indicate that people who pray on a regular basis and attend a house of faith of one kind or another tend to live longer lives. They attribute these results to the fact that people who participate in organized religion tend to have more friends, are more sociable and more likely to have a support group to help them manage through difficult times in their lives. The study did not mention if people who simply meditate a-religiously (practice yoga, etc…) and are outgoing experience the same longevity. I guess the lesson here is that it doesn’t matter what you pray for or how you do it. As long as you get out there and pray regularly. Me, I’d rather curl up with the wife and a good book. I guess my days are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/55 "2001-06-25T17:57:27Z")
**Myrr21** : Good point. By putting that bit about God’s will in there the outcome of the prayer doesn’t matter, the effectiveness of prayer is always validated. There is a ready made explanation for why the praying person didn’t get what he/she wanted. It is like television faith healers, “You will always be healed. 100% cured. If you have enough faith.”:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/56 "2001-06-25T18:12:40Z")
If prayer really worked, planes would never crash. Out of, maybe, 300 people on a diving plane, probably 250 of them are praying their heads off, and at least 100 of them will have to be “good Christians.” And how’s about planeloads of nuns? They’ve been known to crash from time to time. You mean one hellbound atheist like me dooms everyone on the plane? ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/57 "2001-06-25T18:25:37Z")
I do not believe berdollos asked anyone whether they believe prayer works. He was asking for advice from others who know that prayer works. If somebody posted a question on thermodynamics (a subject I barely understand) I will not answer it as though I understand the subject and I will definitely not try to prove that the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. If you look at this entire thread, you will see that nobody answered berdollos’ question but only tried to convince him what he knows to be true is wrong. Make your own judjment on this and I apologize if I offended anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/58 "2001-06-25T18:36:21Z")
Mambo - say the OP had asked “Where can I buy a unicorn?”; Would you have gotten directions to a convenient Mystical Creature Shoppe, or would you have a bunch of educated Dopers patiently trying to explain that there’s no such thing? And no, even if the OP had claimed that he once saw a unicor, the response would not have been any different. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/59 "2001-06-25T19:07:29Z")
Actually, somebody **did** manage to breeed a unicorn once. Trouble was, it wasn’t a unicorn based on a HORSE, it was a unicorn based on a GOAT. He selectively bred goats with horns that grew successively closer and closer together with each generation until, finally, one of his goats had its horns SO close together that they intertwined and formed one BIG horn. I saw it on the old _That’s Incredible!_ TV show, so you know it MUST be true. 😉 I hasten to add, however, that this unicorn was neither invisible nor pink. As to whether its hooves were blessed or not, that’s a question for the theologians. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778/60 "2001-06-25T19:21:59Z")
Ok, if you think the man deserves an answer, we can oblige. Prayers that actually work: 1. 2. 3. Hi Opal! Happy now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prayers-that-actually-work/69778.md?page=4)