# Pre-Celtic People in Ireland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873 "2010-03-09T17:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/1 "2010-03-09T17:05:39Z")
I belive that the Celts were a people who migrated in to Europe, from somewhere in Eurasia…just whne , I don’t know. By the the time of Julius Caesar, the Celts were dominant in Gaul, England and ireland. But what became of the earleir inhabitants of ireland? Were they driven out, or did the intermarry and merge with the Celts? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/2 "2010-03-09T17:14:44Z")
They hid in the hills. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/3 "2010-03-09T17:42:46Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > They hid in the hills. 😉 I honestly broke into laughter at this. Darned tuath-ing\* they did! Pronounced “tooting”, as in Tuatha de Danaan (TOOT-uh day DAN-yan). ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/4 "2010-03-09T17:52:26Z")
On a slightly more serious note though, and remember I’m not expert, Ireland saw large structures being built prior to the Celts. This along with cereal crops suggest a relatively settled number of people. So I’d imagine you’d see a progressive replacement of “native” power centers with newer iron age one. Essentially a fading of the prior inhabitants along with, no doubt, clearing of fertile farming areas. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/5 "2010-03-09T17:59:24Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I honestly broke into laughter at this. Darned tuath-ing\* they did! > > Pronounced “tooting”, as in Tuatha de Danaan (TOOT-uh day DAN-yan). I’ve always known the pronunciation to be “too-ah” not “TOOT-uh”. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/6 "2010-03-09T18:01:02Z")
There was also the Beaker People. > **[Bell Beaker culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture)** > > Vučedol culture, Nagyrév culture, Ottomány culture, Wietenberg culture, Vatya culture > Bell Beaker culture, Unetice culture, Nordic Bronze Age, Tumulus culture, Urnfield culture > Bronze Age Britain, Bronze Age France, Armorican Tumulus culture, Bronze Age Iberia, Argaric culture, Hilversum culture, Atlantic Bronze Age ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/7 "2010-03-09T18:09:13Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > But what became of the earleir inhabitants of ireland? Were they driven out, or did the intermarry and merge with the Celts? The Celts probably arrived in small numbers, but had prestige due to military or technological skills, so the locals eventually adopted Celtic language, religion, etc. I once read that a red-haired gene still almost unique to Ireland was present there many thousands of years ago (long before Celt arrival). Sorry, no cite for this; nor any opinion about its scientific validity. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/8 "2010-03-09T18:44:24Z")
This [New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/science/06brits.html) cites genetic studies suggesting that > [@](#): > > about three-quarters of the ancestors of today’s British and Irish populations arrived between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, when rising sea levels split Britain and Ireland from the Continent and from each other, Dr. Oppenheimer calculates in a new book, “The Origins of the British: A Genetic Detective Story” (Carroll & Graf, 2006). > > Ireland received the fewest of the subsequent invaders; their DNA makes up about 12 percent of the Irish gene pool, Dr. Oppenheimer estimates. DNA from invaders accounts for 20 percent of the gene pool in Wales, 30 percent in Scotland, and about a third in eastern and southern England. > > But no single group of invaders is responsible for more than 5 percent of the current gene pool, Dr. Oppenheimer says on the basis of genetic data. Of course, there’s more than one genetic opinion. Look to language studies, as well. Bob Quinn’s [The Atlantean Irish: Ireland’s Oriental & Maritime Heritage](http://www.conamara.org/atlantean.htm) gives a non-academic’s view of Irish origins & history. (The book has **nothing** to do with Atlantis!) Sir Barry Cunliffe, professor _emeritus_ of European archaeology at Oxford, wrote the preface to the latest edition. A well-known authority in Celtic Studies, his own [Facing the Ocean: The Atlantic & Its Peoples](http://www.historytoday.com/MainArticle.aspx?m=14326&amid=14326) gives the very big picture of European prehistory. In it, he sees the Celtic languages as descendants of a _lingua franca_ used in the peninsulas & islands connected by the Atlantic. The concept of A Celtic People thundering across Europe is a bit outdated. Ouch! That book is OOP & hideously expensive. Check out Cunliffe’s [Europe Between the Oceans](http://www.amazon.com/Europe-Between-Oceans-9000-BC-AD/dp/0300119232/ref=pd_sim_b_1) for another look at early days in Europe–quite free from Celtic Mists… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-celtic-people-in-ireland/531873/9 "2010-03-09T19:03:07Z")
Yes, as said above, the “Celts” probably arrived when the indigenous inhabitants switched to speaking proto-Insular-Celtic (and its Indo-European cultural heritage). There’s no evidence of any large migration; any population movment was probably a smaller elite, military or mercantile or both. Latest theories suggest via Spain, as indeed the medieval Irish said, though there’s still support for the idea of colonization from Gaul. Tuath is “TOO-ath” in Old Irish, “TOO-ah” in modern. Tuatha is “TOO-a-tha” \> “TOO-uh-huh.” Punsters go by their own rules.