# Pre-Emptive Pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592 "2005-12-08T00:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/41 "2005-12-08T04:46:59Z")
Out of idle curiosity, how do the lambasters of the Marshall in question here expect said Marshall to determine that the man wasn’t reaching for the detonation switch of a bomb? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/42 "2005-12-08T04:52:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Out of idle curiosity, how do the lambasters of the Marshall in question here expect said Marshall to determine that the man wasn’t reaching for the detonation switch of a bomb? Once again, NO ONE here is “lambasting” the marshall, or even disagreeing with his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/43 "2005-12-08T04:55:00Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > The important question is, “Does the dead guy get 72 mentally ill virgins in the afterlife?” Well, thats a non sequiter. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/44 "2005-12-08T05:19:34Z")
**Martin** Well I guess I _didn’t_ disappoint you. 😃 I thought folks around the SDMB knew that I have posted a few threads that were not in favor of law enforcement officials. Here’s one: [Officer shoots dog to death in New Hampshire park](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=249536) I don’t want to hijack this thread but I only mentioned my view to show that my opinion of the Air Marshall’s actions was not being tainted by any pro-law enforcement pre-conceptions. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/45 "2005-12-08T05:27:15Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > There’s never enough information in these news articles to truly determine whether the marshall’s actions were justified or not. Based on the very little information therein, I’d say he probably fired a bit too soon, but given the high level of tension in the situation as described, I can’t say I blame him for being somewhat quick on the trigger. OTOH, blowing up defenseless luggage seems a bit extreme. Heh. Right here you said **"I’d say he probably fired a bit too soon"** **{My Bolding}** If the reports are correct, do you still support that statement? If you have changed your mine, my apologies, but it sounds like you wanted the air marshal to wait longer. This wasn’t a matter of pulling out a gun, but fear of a bomb being triggered. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/46 "2005-12-08T05:32:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Out of idle curiosity, how do the lambasters of the Marshall in question here expect said Marshall to determine that the man wasn’t reaching for the detonation switch of a bomb? They expect the Marshall should have waited until such a time when it became obvious what he was reaching for, is what I gather. But obviously the problem with that is, you wait that long and bomb _will_ be detonated if it actually is a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/47 "2005-12-08T05:33:33Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Martin** > Well I guess I _didn’t_ disappoint you. 😃 > > I thought folks around the SDMB knew that I have posted a few threads that were not in favor of law enforcement officials. Here’s one: > [Officer shoots dog to death in New Hampshire park](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=249536) > > I don’t want to hijack this thread but I only mentioned my view to show that my opinion of the Air Marshall’s actions was not being tainted by any pro-law enforcement pre-conceptions. Well, there’s a difference from being critical of some of the things law enforcement does, and being generally anti-law enforcement. I assumed from what you posted you were the latter, not the former. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/48 "2005-12-08T05:36:32Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Right here you said **"I’d say he probably fired a bit too soon"** > **{My Bolding}** I also said: > [@Q.E.D.](#): > > …but given the high level of tension in the situation as described, I can’t say I blame him for being somewhat quick on the trigger. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/49 "2005-12-08T05:59:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Out of idle curiosity, how do the lambasters of the Marshall in question here expect said Marshall to determine that the man wasn’t reaching for the detonation switch of a bomb? Is this, like, how Righty talking points get started? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/50 "2005-12-08T06:06:32Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > I also said: > > Try again. No need, I was honestly trying to clarify. The point of my trying to phrase the question in a non-hostile way. From your post, it sounded like you thought the Marshal may have shot quick. I am glad to know I was wrong. Jim ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/51 "2005-12-08T07:08:02Z")
When i heard the story on the radio this evening, i turned to my wife and said, “Well, if that’s really how it went down, then the marshall can hardly be blamed for shooting the guy.” That said, i’ve always thought that one of the most worthless contributions to these message boards are the type of pre-emptive bullshit that the OP of this thread has engaged in. If someone says something you disagree with, then by all means argue your case. But pre-emptive statements of this nature usually just make the author look like a tool. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/52 "2005-12-08T10:13:53Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Allowing a criminal to pull a gun on a police officer is something you think should be the SOP? > > Law enforcement tells you not to move or they’ll shoot, do you really think law enforcement should wait until someone moves, has a weapon in hand, and shows malicious intent before they should fire? > > The simple fact that the suspect was reaching into an object, the law enforcement officer had _no idea_ what he was reaching for, means he _had_ to act to protect himself and the people around him. > > You’re holding law enforcement to an unimaginably high standard. Two words, Amadou Diallo ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/53 "2005-12-08T10:19:08Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Is this, like, how Righty talking points get started? What are you on about? The dude, at least according to the news, said he had a bomb. What, exactly, would you be thinking the guy’s reaching for when the coppers tell him “don’t touch anything” and he reaches into the bag? “Righty talking points?” Sheesh, what a moron you’ve become. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/54 "2005-12-08T10:47:39Z")
I would just like to thank **Ferret Herder** for writing what I was thinking. If a man on a plane was saying he had a bomb and was in danger of being arrested, when he reached for something, I would assume he was reaching for a bomb, simply because of the percieved difficulties of bringing a gun onto a plane and because it wouldn’t make sense to bring two weapons on board because it increases your risk of being caught. It’s a bit like not wanting to be caught speeding after successfully robbing a bank. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/55 "2005-12-08T14:53:59Z")
> [@](#): > > … and was confronted by air marshals… I’m reading this as there was more than one marshall on this particular flight. I wonder if that’s normal? Was there some compelling reason for this and, if so, might the marshalls have been reacting while under the influence of a heightened alert? ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/56 "2005-12-08T15:03:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What are you on about? The dude, at least according to the news, said he had a bomb. What, exactly, would you be thinking the guy’s reaching for when the coppers tell him “don’t touch anything” and he reaches into the bag? > > “Righty talking points?” Sheesh, what a moron you’ve become. I think what he’s “on about” is that no one here is lambasting the air marshall, as you specifically claimed: > [@](#): > > how do the lambasters of the Marshall in question here expect said Marshall to determine… I suspect that his comment on talking points is that your post seems to attack an position that no one is holding, and that your more recent post is changing the subject and avoiding the issue. I may be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/57 "2005-12-08T15:14:49Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Was there some compelling reason for this and, if so, might the marshalls have been reacting while under the influence of a heightened alert? It would seem that there was. > [@\[cite](#): > > ([http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1383832&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1383832&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312))] > Dec. 7, 2005 — Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News they had been on the alert for a possible shoe bomber when a federal air marshal opened fire at the Miami International Airport today. I’m shocked that nobody has yet come in here to denounce the air marshal, demand and investigation, and somehow tie this all back to GWBush. 😉 It sounds to me like the marshals did exactly what they should have. I hope that this guy is back on the job quickly and without any fuss. I hate to think that other air marshals will hesitate in the moment of truth because they are worried about PC fallout after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/58 "2005-12-08T15:16:08Z")
:sigh: [cite](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1383832&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312) > [@](#): > > Dec. 7, 2005 — Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News they had been on the alert for a possible shoe bomber when a federal air marshal opened fire at the Miami International Airport today. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/59 "2005-12-08T15:20:27Z")
At first glance, the shooting appears to be justified. My position is subject to change as more information comes out. I must say, though, that the picture in my morning paper of the passengers filing off with their hands in the air showed a bit of overexuberance on the part of the marshalls/cops. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592/60 "2005-12-08T15:38:17Z")
Yes, I’m of a mind they acted properly and would strongly suspect they’ll go over all aspects of this case and, if necessary, make whatever modifications they deem proper to their protocol to address similar incidents in the future. It’s a crying shame but how were they to know the true intent of another’s mind when he’s screaming he’s got a bomb. I’d even venture that it was correct not to immediately assume the wife wasn’t complicit. I hope all travellers in need of meds take this to heart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-emptive-pitting/334592.md?page=4)