# Pre-marital sex and Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182 "2003-06-20T15:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Accipiter1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Accipiter1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accipiter1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/1 "2003-06-20T15:22:27Z")
What is the view that Christianity takes on pre-marital sex? It is my general understanding that it is looked down upon, but is it considered an actual sin? If so, then if the couple having pre-marital sex afterwards get married, is the pre-martial sex sin wiped clean or would it still need to be confessed and forgiven? Is it not considered a sin at all, is it then just considered a bad lifestyle choice with potential bad outcomes? If it is not sin, could a person be a Christian, never get married but generally have as much sex as they like (with other non-married people) and have a guilt-free conscious about it all (providing it doesn’t lead to disease or other unwanted outcomes)? What does the bible say about pre-marital sex or does it say anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/2 "2003-06-20T15:28:40Z")
My understanding is that God created sex to be a celebration of the love between a husband and a wife. If you are not married, then you are using a gift from God in a manner for which He did not create it. Therefore, it is a sin. You can ask for forgiveness later, but I think it’s kinda shitty of you if you sin with the thought in mind that you can be forgiven later so it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Accipiter1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Accipiter1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accipiter1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/3 "2003-06-20T15:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*My understanding is that God created sex to be a celebration of the love between a husband and a wife. If you are not married, then you are using a gift from God in a manner for which He did not create it. Therefore, it is a sin. You can ask for forgiveness later, but I think it’s kinda shitty of you if you sin with the thought in mind that you can be forgiven later so it’s all good. \*\* I think I can understand that sentiment, but is there anything that can be cited that would support this position. Where did the ideal that God created sex as a celebration of love between a husband and a wife come from? Is it biblical? Is it tradition or culture? Does it only apply to humans (as obviously animals have sex also)? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/4 "2003-06-20T16:49:14Z")
Ummm . . . yes. Mainstream Christian belief absolutely holds that premarital sex is a sin. I’m honestly surprised that anyone would think otherwise. The Biblical argument is pretty straightforward: Adultery is a sin. All sex outside marriage is adultery. Therefore, premarital sex is a sin. You want chapter and verse? Be happy to provide some. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/5 "2003-06-20T17:00:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*Adultery is a sin. > > All sex outside marriage is adultery. > > You want chapter and verse? Be happy to provide some. \*\* Just out of curiosity, I’d like chapter and verse on that. The idea that all sex outside of marriage is adultery is not consistent with Jewish thought (which only holds that a married woman having an extra-marital affair is adultery). I’m curious what the Christian derivation of “all sex outside marriage = adultery” is. That’s not to say that pre-marital sex is permitted in Judaism either. But it’s definitely not adultery, with the stringent consequences that it entails. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/6 "2003-06-20T17:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > Adultery is a sin. > > All sex outside marriage is adultery. > > Therefore, premarital sex is a sin. > > You want chapter and verse? Be happy to provide some. Just curious, but I would like the C&V. Adultery assumes that one of the partners is married (or at least betrothed). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/7 "2003-06-20T17:06:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*Ummm . . . yes. Mainstream Christian belief absolutely holds that premarital sex is a sin. I’m honestly surprised that anyone would think otherwise. > > The Biblical argument is pretty straightforward: > > Adultery is a sin. > > All sex outside marriage is adultery. > > Therefore, premarital sex is a sin. > > You want chapter and verse? Be happy to provide some. \*\* Close, **Andros** , but no cigar. _Adultery_ is specifically the breaking of marriage vows by engaging in sex with someone not your spouse, one or both of you being married. (I.e., if single guy Joe sleeps with married woman Pamela, knowing her to be married to Fred, he’s guilty of adultery by being the other half of the liaison under which she broke her marriage vows.) Sex between unmarried people is _fornication_ and is deemed a sin by those who play the “catalog the sins” game. Bottom line on it is: God created sex, called it good, and commanded to be fruitful and multiply. The highest and best sex is in a committed marital relationship. We owe God the highest and best we can give him; therefore we should only have sex in such a relationship. In our society, this of course presents problems to those who by law cannot marry: teens below the age of consent for marriage, gay people, etc. I’d hesitate long and hard before I started calling their sex lives sinful. Now, of course when you’re dealing with a kid just learning the facts of life, the message you want to get across to him/her is “You can control your body’s urges; wait. You want to have sex only in marriage.” This of course translates to “it’s bad and sinful” in their minds (and, sadly, in the words of some parents and moral teachers). Does that make it any clearer? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/8 "2003-06-20T17:14:44Z")
Razzafrazzzin . . . I really meant to type fornication, promise. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/9 "2003-06-20T17:20:05Z")
I’m curious, in that case, what the Christian take is on the Judah-Tamar union, especially considering that this extra-marital union led to David and, later, Jesus? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/10 "2003-06-20T17:26:08Z")
Not everyone accepts the idea that all sex outside of marriage is adultery. In fact, the term is almost never used to condemn pre-marital sex in our society. For example, military regs (rather anachronistically) prohibit adultery and define it as a married person having sex with someone not their spouse or having sex with a married person when you are not their spouse, as do those state laws still in existence. Adultery is a sin because it victimizes the betrayed spouse and harm the marriage by destroying the trust. Pre-marital sex does nothing of the sort and this critical distinction should not be ignored. I reject the notion that an act is a sin if it uses something that was “intended” for something else. By that logic, using flowers as decoration or to make perfume is a sin because flowers are intended to attract insects for pollination. Single people have sexual needs too. The difference between morality and superstition is, if the act in question causes no harm, any cultural prohibition is superstition. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/11 "2003-06-20T17:30:38Z")
But most of the anti-sex verses come from Paul’s and the rest of the epistles, so it’s not surprising that it’s often at odds with Jewish thought, **Zev**. It’s interesting, really. There’s a lot of talk, especially from Paul about “sexual immorality,” in which he included both adultery and fornication. Example: > [@](#): > > Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral (Heb. 13:4, NIV) The term shows up several times, in Acts 15:29, 1Corinthians 6:13 and 6:18, Ephesians 5:3, 1Thessalonians 4:3. In fact, First Corinthians has some of the most often-quoted lines from Paul about morality (including what’s most often pointed to as his most searing indictment of homosexuality): > [@](#): > > Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God > > “Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”–but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. > Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (1Cor6:9-20, NIV) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/12 "2003-06-20T18:40:25Z")
From [Mark 10](http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/rsv2www?specfile=/texts/english/religion/rsv/rsv-pub.o2w&act=text&offset=4510745&textreg=0&query=asunder) > [@](#): > > 5: But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. > 6: But from the beginning of creation, `God made them male and female.' 7: `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, > 8: and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. > 9: What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” Jesus is discussing divorce here, but (IMHO, at least) the underlying implication of Jesus’ words is that when a man and woman become ‘one flesh’ through sexual intercourse, it’s a pretty big deal, big enough of one that it’s going against God’s will for a couple to rip that union asunder, go their separate ways, and be joined to others. Whether that’s the established union of a marriage, or just a one-night stand, it’s still wrong. Or at least that’s how I read this passage. **zev** , as far as the union of Judah with his daughter-in-law Tamar is concerned, it is standard Christian belief that God is redeeming the world, and has the power to bring good out of evil. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/13 "2003-06-20T19:01:06Z")
Thanks for the Matthew, **Rufus**. I knew I was missing something out of a gospel or two. > [@](#): > > as far as the union of Judah with his daughter-in-law Tamar is concerned, it is standard Christian belief that God is redeeming the world, and has the power to bring good out of evil. So, it’s Christian thought that they did sin? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/14 "2003-06-20T19:21:14Z")
I would _assume_ so, though I’ve never heard any theologizing on that bit of Biblical lore. But from the POV of Christian theology, there’s no problem with a David or a Joseph (Mary’s husband, that is) being descended from an illicit union. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/15 "2003-06-20T19:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > **I’m curious, in that case, what the Christian take is on the Judah-Tamar union, especially considering that this extra-marital union led to David and, later, Jesus?** (This is not representative of all Christians, just my take based on my reading and the teaching I’ve had over the years.) There are 4 women listed in Christ’s genealogy. One was an adulteress, one was a prostitute, one was not Jewish (and from what I’ve read, there are speculations as to what happened on the threshing floor), and one was Tamar - an adulteress (arguably as she was promised in marriage to Shelah) pretending to be a prostitute. (For the record, many of the men listed were not paragons of virtue either.) My take is that God uses imperfect people to carry out His plan and His will. That does not mean that the ends justify the means. But that even if we stumble, God can still use us and even the stumble to do something wonderful. But was it a sin? On both their parts, I think so. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/16 "2003-06-20T19:34:36Z")
Read **Matthew 5 : 27-28** > [@](#): > > "You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery, But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. " Jesus is kind of _re-defining_ the word ‘adultery’ here. I believe it’s because the Pharisees’ were really fond of rules and splitting hairs when defining those rules. Here he points out that the definition of adultery, as he expalins it, is so broad that almost no one can _not_ break it. But that’s in keeping with all of us. We’re all sinners. We are to try to be like Christ, we can’t ever achieve perfection in this world, but we have to try, and try hard. I’ll go home and study my greek texts and try and get back tomorrow with more details. Slight hijack… Most Americans in the 21st century do not think that 2 consenting adults sleeping together is a bad thing. The Romans had a simular mindset. However, Christians are not to "be conformed to this world " (Romans 12:2) in as so far as committing acts that God has forbidden. It’s not easy. But, being a Christian is not easy. When I was saved that was one of my hardest struggles. My heart goes out to all Christian men and women who are tempted with those urges. I thank God that when I finally met my wife, we were both committed to keeping ourselves “pure” until our honeymoon. P.S. It was worth it! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/17 "2003-06-20T19:50:45Z")
And for what it’s worth, I thank the IPU that my SO and I were comitted to having as much sweaty monkeylove as we possibly could, in as many ways as possible, and spending our time and energies on keeping our relationship rich and joyful, reveling in each other’s minds and bodies out of love rather than out of an obligation to frustrate ourselves until we had a piece of paper in our hands. P.S. It was worth it! And still is! ---
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/18 "2003-06-20T20:48:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*There are 4 women listed in Christ’s genealogy. One was an adulteress, one was a prostitute, one was not Jewish (and from what I’ve read, there are speculations as to what happened on the threshing floor), and one was Tamar - an adulteress (arguably as she was promised in marriage to Shelah) pretending to be a prostitute. (For the record, many of the men listed were not paragons of virtue either.) \*\* To go further on the Tamar-Judah thing: Judah sinned against Tamar by reneging on his promise (Gen. 38:11) to give his son Shelah to Tamar (in a precursor to the Levirate marriage commandment given later in the Law). As Judah himself says, in verse 26, “She has been more righteous than I, because I did not give her to Shelah my son.” The point of all these women mentioned in the geneology seems to be that even though they were all guilty of sexual impropriety, God brought something good out of it all. Application? Sexual impropriety/immorality is wrong, but can be redeemed by God - especially if one has faith in Him. Yes, pre-marital sex is a sin, but everyone sins. I’m not saying this to excuse it, but to say none of us has anything over anyone else in the sin department. I guess I’m starting to drift into another topic, so I’ll leave it at that for now. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/19 "2003-06-20T21:04:05Z")
I think it has to do with how one defines marriage. Is marriage defined by the piece of paper you receive from the government essentially “allowing” you to file your taxes together? OR Is marriage defined as 2 people deciding that they want to spend the rest of their lives committed to each other. I tend to go with the second definition. I knew I was going to marry my wife 2 years before we actually had the ceremony. But it was a that point that I believe I became married. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me I’m married. The chain around my neck serves as a constant reminder (I really hope she doesn’t read this 😃 . Just kidding Love). ---
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/20 "2003-06-20T21:15:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > \*\*Not everyone accepts the idea that all sex outside of marriage is adultery. In fact, the term is almost never used to condemn pre-marital sex in our society. For example, military regs (rather anachronistically) prohibit adultery and define it as a married person having sex with someone not their spouse or having sex with a married person when you are not their spouse, as do those state laws still in existence. > > Adultery is a sin because it victimizes the betrayed spouse and harm the marriage by destroying the trust. Pre-marital sex does nothing of the sort and this critical distinction should not be ignored. > > I reject the notion that an act is a sin if it uses something that was “intended” for something else. By that logic, using flowers as decoration or to make perfume is a sin because flowers are intended to attract insects for pollination. > > Single people have sexual needs too. The difference between morality and superstition is, if the act in question causes no harm, any cultural prohibition is superstition. \*\* I really don’t think this has anything to do with the OP - we were only on the topic of what the **Christian** POV on pre-marital sex is, not on society’s, or any other POV. I invite you to prove that your opinion can be reconciled with orthodox Christian teaching, if that is what you believe **is** the Christian POV. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182.md?page=2)