# Pre-marital sex and Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182 "2003-06-20T15:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/41 "2003-06-23T23:06:01Z")
Thanks for the clarification, **Shodan.** ---
**Author:** ![lovelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@lovelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lovelee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/42 "2003-06-24T00:35:38Z")
I seem to have a lot of male friends between the ages of 21-36 looking for “good Christian girls with good Christian values” … but the kicker is that these girls must be okay with pre-marital sex. I don’t understand this. How can you really have both? ---
**Author:** ![lovelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@lovelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lovelee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/43 "2003-06-24T00:40:57Z")
I seem to have a lot of male friends between the ages of 21-36 looking for “good Christian girls with good Christian values” … but the kicker is that these girls must be okay with pre-marital sex. I don’t understand this. How can you really have both? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/44 "2003-06-24T03:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*I believe sex outside of marriage is a sin. \*\* Cite? > [@](#): > > \*\* > IMHO, its not worth it, any guy who claims to love you but doesn’t want to marry you is just using you, as far as I’m concerned and I will nto degrade myself that way. \*\* But that’s a circular argument. Sex has to be about love. Why? Because if someone has sex with you and says he loves you but doesn’t, then he’s just using you. The problem is that if neither participant assumes that their sexual encounter is about love, and both agree that they’re doing it for fun, then there’s no deception, and the bottom falls out of your analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/45 "2003-06-24T03:33:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kempis \* > \*\*Plus in nearly all religions it is considered a sin to engage in risky behavior for short-term pleasure. > > An unwanted pregnancy, a STD, or a non-committed physical bonding can all happen when you engage in sex with someone you’re not married to. \*\* Nonsense. You’re just moving the goal posts. People can engage in sexual behaviors which Christianity forbids, but which aren’t risky at all. “Abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control” is just nonsense, and transparent nonsense at that. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/46 "2003-06-24T03:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > Cite? Ben, I believe she was just stating her _personal beliefs and preferences_. Is she not allowed to do that without being expected to provide cites? > [@](#): > > But that’s a circular argument. But it’s in her HO (humble opinion) and she’s entitled to it, right? To her, it’s “not worth it”. Her life, her sex life and her opinion. :shrug: I see no reason to argue and demand cites from someone who is only expressing their personal preferences. They are entitled to decide who they will or will not have sex with, and they are entitled to have personal reasons behind their decisions. It’s just their personal opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/47 "2003-06-24T03:46:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*Jesus is discussing divorce here, but (IMHO, at least) the underlying implication of Jesus’ words is that when a man and woman become ‘one flesh’ through sexual intercourse, it’s a pretty big deal, big enough of one that it’s going against God’s will for a couple to rip that union asunder, go their separate ways, and be joined to others. > > Whether that’s the established union of a marriage, or just a one-night stand, it’s still wrong. Or at least that’s how I read this passage. \*\* It seems to me, then, that the reasoning behind Jesus’ condemnation of remarriage is that your first spouse is your only real spouse, and you never actually are cut from them except in the special case of divorce resulting from adultery. If that’s the case, then the sin of remarriage lies not in the actual act of marriage, but in the fact that every time you have sex with the new spouse, you’re committing adultery. Yosemitebabe: perhaps I’m mistaken, but I’ll wait for vanilla to provide her own clarification. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/48 "2003-06-24T04:48:21Z")
Ben: It seemed to me that she mentioned several times that it was her opinion (“IMHO”) and that _to her_ it “just wasn’t worth it”. If you read somewhere that she condemns all who do not share her beliefs, it would be easiest to just copy and paste the quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/49 "2003-06-24T04:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > > * * * > > The problem is that if neither participant assumes that their sexual encounter is about love, and both agree that they’re doing it for fun, then there’s no deception, and the bottom falls out of your analysis. \*\* Not so, if Christians see sex as a gift from God, doing it just “for fun” is seen as abusing the gift, dishonoring the one who gave it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > > * * * > > “Abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control” is just nonsense, and transparent nonsense at that.\*\* Theoretically speaking, if the most effective birth control had a spectacular series of oversights, pregnancy could result. There have been many cases where doctors were convinced that a woman would not be able to concieve, but she still got pregnant. But I can be 100% sure that I have never impregnated any of the women I’ve never had sex with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/50 "2003-06-24T12:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\*Check out Dt. 21:10-3 and NU. 31:18. Looks like you can have sex without marriage to me, if the conditions are right. \*\* I don’t see that. The Deuteronomy passage explicitly mentions taking the captive woman “as your wife” (at least in the NIV), and presumably the Numbers passage is talking about the same thing. This would come under the heading of forced marriage rather than pre-marital sex. Certainly it is hard to justify what amounts to a form of rape in the two passages, but at least it is a step up from simply raping her and then selling her as a slave. The ancient Jews were enjoined that you couldn’t do that, you had to marry her, and if you found out that you didn’t like being married to her, you had to let her go free. Certainly still pretty nasty. Ancient writings are full of that sort of thing. The most beautiful, lyric poetry, epic adventure - and then the most off-hand acceptance of actions that would qualify under modern sensibilities as war crimes. It was a completely different culture. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/51 "2003-06-24T12:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lovelee \* > \*\*I seem to have a lot of male friends between the ages of 21-36 looking for “good Christian girls with good Christian values” … but the kicker is that these girls must be okay with pre-marital sex. > > I don’t understand this. How can you really have both? \*\* Here’s at least one other person who doesn’t understand it, either. ---
**Author:** ![rhinostylee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@rhinostylee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhinostylee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/52 "2003-06-24T14:16:47Z")
Premarital sex is viewed as a sin, which I personally think is BS. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/53 "2003-06-25T00:03:12Z")
Well, God doesn’t think its BS, my experience wasn’t BS, and God’s opinion is all that matters to me, not the world’s. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/54 "2003-06-25T00:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Ben, I believe she was just stating her _personal beliefs and preferences_. Is she not allowed to do that without being expected to provide cites? > But it’s in her HO (humble opinion) and she’s entitled to it, right? To her, it’s “not worth it”. Her life, her sex life and her opinion. :shrug: I see no reason to argue and demand cites from someone who is only expressing their personal preferences. They are entitled to decide who they will or will not have sex with, and they are entitled to have personal reasons behind their decisions. It’s just their personal opinion. \*\* Why thank you. 🙂 Its not like I’m for outlawing it! ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/55 "2003-06-25T10:54:29Z")
Speaking of marriage what are the biblical requirements that state what a valid marriage is? What does scripture require for a “legal” Christian marriage? ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182/56 "2003-06-25T17:06:36Z")
Please provide proof that the term “fornication” _ **as used in the time of Jesus** _ actually meant pre-marital sex between a man and a woman. It could have just as easily refered to male prostitution and had nothing to do with pre-marital sex between men and women. It doesn’t take long for words and phrases to change common meanings over the years. The word “gay” meant something completely different just 100 years ago in common usage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-marital-sex-and-christianity/183182.md?page=2)