# Pre-publication knowledge of The Simarillion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831 "2017-10-02T23:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/1 "2017-10-02T23:31:20Z")
What did Tolkien fans know about The Silmarillion before Christopher published it in 1977? I know he talked it about it in his letters, but beyond that was there anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/2 "2017-10-02T23:44:42Z")
I’m pretty sure I had heard something about it, perhaps in the Tolkien Encyclopedia, which was published before the Silmarillion came out. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/3 "2017-10-03T00:04:38Z")
My apologies - I mean “The Tolkien Companion” [https://www.amazon.com/Tolkien-Companion-J-Tyler/dp/0312808151](https://www.amazon.com/Tolkien-Companion-J-Tyler/dp/0312808151) - it came out in 1976, before the Silmarrillion ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/4 "2017-10-03T00:19:05Z")
Here’s a link to some early mentions of The Silmarillion [Silmarillion - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=Silmarillion&tbs=cdr:1,cd_max:1/1/1976&tbm=bks&ei=7tXSWZf_AseUjwTahaOQBg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=659&dpr=1) - the earliest is 1966. As for me, I knew it was coming somehow, since I put it on reserve at my local library before it was ordered (and since I was an early teenager when it came out, and the book was categorized as adult fiction, the library assumed I had reserved it for my mother, which caused some confusion). Andy, Tolkien fan from way back (have you heard the recordings of JRRT singing the songs of Middle Earth? I have!) ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/5 "2017-10-03T00:59:48Z")
I recall an afterword in one of the books in C.S. Lewis’s The Space Trilogy, where he is speaking about Merlin being a Numenorean and wishing that Tolkien would publish those stories. Not quite pre-knowledge of the Silmarrilion, but I am sure it helped to get the word out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/6 "2017-10-03T01:29:08Z")
**Andy L** , your librarian must not have known you very well. My librarian never batted an eye at pre-teen me checking out adult books. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/7 "2017-10-03T01:42:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Andy L** , your librarian must not have known you very well. My librarian never batted an eye at pre-teen me checking out adult books. I looked particularly young for my age, and The Silmarillion (I guess) seemed pretty thick and adult-ish. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/8 "2017-10-03T12:05:17Z")
There were random hints and allusions here and there. Some of it, of course, in the Lord of the Rings itself, where it tantalizingly mentions earlier Middle-Earth lore and poems and stories, like One-Handed Beren and Luthien and Gondolin (which is mentioned even in The Hobbit). Someone told me about an unbelievably lucky fan who had his fan letter to Tolkien actually answered (“I have been working on the Silmarillion , lo these many years…”) . The gist was that he’d finish it up if only people would stop bothering him. So it was with considerable surprise that, only a couple of years later, I saw a poster up in a bookstore with the cover illustration (lifted from Tolkien’s own illustration of The Mountain Path from The Hobbit: [http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/silmarillion\_fcover.jpg](http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/silmarillion_fcover.jpg) ) and a notice that they were taking pre-orders. I bought my copy of that first edition… …and, boy, was I disappointed. Tolkien has many writing styles, as I knew from reading his other available works before this. There’s the Listen-to-Grandfather style of THe Hobbit, and the Adventure Story Style of Lord of the Rings and the Tongue In Cheek epic style of Farmer Giles of Ham, but I never expected The Silmarillion to be written in the Dry as Dust Academic Style that many of the entries in The Tolkien Reader were. I have, nonetheless, read the damned thing twice, hoping to catch the old LOTR vibe. I did get it, but only from selected readings in his Books of Unfinished Tales. (Actually, a good place to find hints from The Silmarillion was in Robert Foster’s encyclopedic _Guide to Middle Earth_) [![](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cOsKO3L4L._SL300_.jpg) ](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cOsKO3L4L._SL300_.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/9 "2017-10-03T16:12:28Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > My apologies - I mean “The Tolkien Companion” [https://www.amazon.com/Tolkien-Companion-J-Tyler/dp/0312808151](https://www.amazon.com/Tolkien-Companion-J-Tyler/dp/0312808151) - it came out in 1976, before the Silmarrillion How is that book? It’s not very expensive on Amazon and I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/10 "2017-10-03T16:51:08Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How is that book? It’s not very expensive on Amazon and I’m curious. I liked it when I was a Tolkien-obsessed teen, but there are probably better references now, since the Tolkien Companion was pre-Silmarillion (though I think there was a revision after the Silmarillion was published. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/11 "2017-10-03T18:47:57Z")
There was a 1976 book (i.e., a year before _The Silmarillion_ came out) called _Tolkien & The Silmarillion_ by Clyde S. Kilby which used all the information available at the time to predict what the book would be about. There several currently available encyclopedic treatments of Tolkien’s works that are far beyond _The Tolkien Companion_ in comprehensiveness. There are a number of organizations, journals, conferences, websites, and message boards with lots of Tolkien experts. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/12 "2017-10-03T18:54:53Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > … There are a number of organizations, journals, conferences, websites, and message boards with lots of Tolkien experts. Where would one find one of these message boards? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/13 "2017-10-03T21:41:09Z")
Well, you can join the Mythopoeic Society: [http://www.mythsoc.org/](http://www.mythsoc.org/) or the Tolkien Society: > **[The Tolkien Society](https://www.tolkiensociety.org/)** > > The Tolkien Society is an educational charity, literary society, and international fan club, devoted to promoting the life and works of J.R.R. Tolkien. or join the mailing list: [mythsoc.yahoogroups.com](http://mythsoc.yahoogroups.com) or read: _The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide_ by Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond ---
**Author:** ![GinoC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f4b2a3/32.png) [@GinoC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GinoC)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/14 "2017-10-04T01:58:19Z")
I know many people expected The Silmarillion to be written In the same style as LotR, but having grown up on Edith Hamilton, I loved the style of high epic myth. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/15 "2017-10-04T04:42:39Z")
> [@FordPrefect](#): > > I recall an afterword in one of the books in C.S. Lewis’s The Space Trilogy, where he is speaking about Merlin being a Numenorean and wishing that Tolkien would publish those stories. > > Not quite pre-knowledge of the Silmarrilion, but I am sure it helped to get the word out. That would be the preface to _That Hideous Strength_: > [@](#): > > Those who would like to learn further about Numinor and the True West must (alas!) await the publication of much that still exists only in the MSS. of my friend, Professor J.R.R. Tolkien. You can see Lewis misspelled “Numenor” (assumed it was related to “numinous”) here and elsewhere in his book because Tolkien read his work to Lewis and their friends rather than giving them his only manuscript to read. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/16 "2017-10-04T15:19:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There were random hints and allusions here and there. Some of it, of course, in the Lord of the Rings itself, where it tantalizingly mentions earlier Middle-Earth lore and poems and stories, like One-Handed Beren and Luthien and Gondolin (which is mentioned even in The Hobbit). I did a search of my Kindle LOTR and there are mentions of the Silmarils and wars fought over them, but surprisingly no mention of Feanor or his oath. They are mentioned, however, in his lengthy letter to his publisher Milton Waldman [Letter 131](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_131). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/17 "2020-12-27T19:46:44Z")
Just happened to be looking at some old posts of mine. The mailing list for the Mythopoeic Society is no longer [mythsoc@yahoogroups.com](mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com). It’s now this: [mythsoc@groups.io](mailto:mythsoc@groups.io) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/18 "2020-12-28T02:08:53Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There was a 1976 book (i.e., a year before _The Silmarillion_ came out) called _Tolkien & The Silmarillion_ by Clyde S. Kilby I still have my copy! And thanks for the updated info. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/19 "2020-12-28T12:47:14Z")
It’s not surprising his publishers turned down _The Silmarillion_ during his lifetime. Lots of the people who bought it were going to be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831/20 "2020-12-28T13:06:24Z")
This is a strange and misleading post. Tolkien never actually offered up The Silmarillion for publication. He suggested something along the lines of it way back when the publishers wanted a sequel to the Hobbit and so instead wrote the Lord of the Rings. The Professor never really pulled his myths into a coherent enough form to publish. It took a great effort by Christopher Tolkien to pull all the pieces together and try to keep them working with the Lord of the Rings. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-publication-knowledge-of-the-simarillion/797831.md?page=2)