# Pre-rock music in England **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072 "2006-12-30T03:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/1 "2006-12-30T03:51:19Z")
I was reading the [Rock and Roll article on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll) and it gives a good history of the origins of rock, which is definitely attributed as an American invention. I assume that in the early 20th century, Americans were listening to classical, jazz, swing, gospel, country and R&B - all of which pretty much gave way to what became rock 'n roll in the late 40’s and early 50’s. The British kids (according to Wikipedia) didn’t seem to catch on and invent “skiffle” until the white American kids made R&B more popular/accessible which brought American “black” music to England for them to emulate. Even then, all of the roots of rock (and thus skiffle) were purely American - jazz, swing, gospel, country and R&B. I’m actually just _assuming_ that the above-mentioned styles were what was popular in America before rock and roll. If I am off, let me know. But what I really want to know is what were folks (mainly teens) in England listening to before they found R&B? Like, what would Eric Clapton’s dad have been a fan of? How about a really young Ringo Starr? I do know that lots of American swing bands played in England during the war(s?). Surely though all of the pre-rock British music couldn’t have been imported? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/2 "2006-12-30T03:58:00Z")
They all listened to either traveling minstrels who played _Greensleeves,_ or brass bands playing _Rule Britannia._ Seriously, I have always wondered about this myself. I hope someone comes along with a non-joke answer. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/3 "2006-12-30T04:35:02Z")
[This page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_singles_from_the_1950s_%28UK%29) lists pre-rock #1 singles in the UK, a guide to the type of music that was popular then. Prior to Bill Haley, the popular songs were similar to those in the US at the time, often with the same pre-rock artists and songs: Perry Como, Eddie Fisher, Frank Sinatra, Guy Mitchell, etc., with a few UK-only acts mixed in (It wasn’t until the British Invasion that UK acts started doing well in the US). Of course, the singles chart ignored the same things the US singles charts ignored at the time: jazz, folk, etc. You can get a look the titles at [http://www.everyhit.com/](http://www.everyhit.com/). ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/4 "2006-12-30T04:38:34Z")
Don’t forget that the record was invented in the very first years of the 20th century, so American music was available for export before WWII. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/5 "2006-12-30T04:50:10Z")
So British people have been listening to American music ever since there was “American music”? They went from bagpipes and fiddles and limericks to Perry Como? Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/6 "2006-12-30T05:42:49Z")
Meet [Mr. Acker Bilk](http://youtube.com/watch?v=55mbCul8hwk), circa 1962. He even charted in the U.S. for a while. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/7 "2006-12-30T06:46:01Z")
From what I’ve read of Britain in the '50s, they would have seen much the same kind of polished, G-rated family entertainment as Americans, only hosted by Britons and done in an uniquely British way. Their “idea of entertainment” was derived from music hall, and traditional, or “trad” jazz was popular. Variety shows were as popular in England as the US, for instance, Morecambe and Wise were wildly popular comedians who did skits and sang corny songs. They wore red and white striped jackets and straw hats and carried canes, the whole showbiz bit. That type of entertainment was still popular into the 1960s and 1970s, with singers like Val Doonican, Tom Jones and Engelbert Humperdinck carrying on the same traditions: slick, polished, family-friendly and only slightly naughty, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/8 "2006-12-30T07:13:23Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] They went from bagpipes and fiddles and limericks to Perry Como? Ouch. [/QUOTE] Got a problem with Perry? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/9 "2006-12-30T09:50:45Z")
Reality Chuck has given the full chart information. I’m 53 and the first record I was bought was Lonnie Donegan (skiffle) "My Old Man’s a Dustman’ in 1959 ish. Soon The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and the Who came along… My parents listened to Big Band (Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Count Basie), Sinatra and jazz. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/10 "2006-12-30T09:51:06Z")
There are a number of movies/videos that catch period British pop music: [Pennies From Heaven](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077060/) (30s) [Dance With a Stranger](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088987/) (50s) [Absolute Beginners](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090585/) (Early 60s) [Quadrophenia](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079766/) (Mid 60s) American popular music was a big influence, but there were others: Jamaican Ska, Irish Ceile, London stage, collier band, etc. Listen to the Kinks’ _Come Dancing_ for an idea of how these came together right before Elvis made his mark in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/11 "2006-12-30T11:12:42Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper] Got a problem with Perry? :dubious: [/QUOTE] To see how it is possible to like Perry take a look at this [Papa love mambo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgdweo6mi0) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/12 "2006-12-30T11:15:23Z")
Plenty of American jazz & swing made it across the pond, particularly during WW2. Glenn Miller is pretty much the cliche soundtrack to anything based in the 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/13 "2006-12-30T11:52:39Z")
There was quite an active jazz and blues scene in the early 50s. My girlfriend’s father introduced Big Bill Broonzy on stage at this concert in 1952 in the Usher Hall in Edinburgh - a fairly big venue (seats 2900) although it wasn’t a sell-out… he also provided the tapes to the record company decades later! [On Tour in Britain](http://www.mnblues.com/cdreview/2003/bigbillbroonzy-tour1952-cr.html) live cd Reviews at the time referred to him as a folk musician and also that he sang negro spirituals - the term ‘blues’ hadn’t really established itself, obviously! ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pre-rock-music-in-england/386072/14 "2006-12-30T12:56:28Z")
Don’t forget that Gilbert and Sullivan music was “popular music” in its day, and not really put in the same league as “serious” opera, as some people attempt to place it these days. It was irreverent and topical, much as the stuff by the likes of Noel Coward and George Formby were in later years. Up until the advent of television, I’d say even radio didn’t change much of the main form of popular music, which was homemade. Family singalongs and around-the-piano get-togethers were still influential, and so folk music would have had a strong influence well into the middle of the century.