# Predatory capabilities of rats? (And other questions) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671 "2005-06-24T14:44:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/21 "2005-06-24T23:59:13Z")
I think this thread calls for an experiment… Willard? ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/22 "2005-06-25T00:13:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So what? Doesn’t affect my point. Well, it could if … wait …I’m not doing this any more. It’s silly, and it makes the rat cry. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: > > :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: > > So what, exactly, is your point in all this, since you agree with me on the basic conclusion? Oooh look! Smiley things! Pretty. My point? We are in a thread that asks whether pack of marauding rats can slay humans, and you ask what the point is? We have extrapolations from squirrel-speeds, statements of barefooted rat-stomping, and - hey - I missed this one from **Sage Rat** : “And I doubt a rat would be able to move faster than an equally sized dog” Which is an amusing image on which to end my posts to this thread, particularly as it seems like the rat has now somehow managed to burrow into your arse. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/23 "2005-06-25T00:29:46Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > It’s silly, and it makes the rat cry. I’m glad we agree on something. [/quote] Which is an amusing image on which to end my posts to this thread, particularly as it seems like the rat has now somehow managed to burrow into your arse. [/QUOTE] Would you kindly explain this comment? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/24 "2005-06-25T14:03:20Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > Hey - I missed this one from **Sage Rat** : > > “And I doubt a rat would be able to move faster than an equally sized dog” > > Which is an amusing image on which to end my posts to this thread, particularly as it seems like the rat has now somehow managed to burrow into your arse. Whaaaa? (Suspects Boldface might have been hitting the bottle when writing his posts.) There are rats larger than chihuahuas, so this isn’t a hypothetical statement. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/25 "2005-06-25T15:40:23Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Rats are surprisingly intelligent and can make excellent pets. They’re at least as intelligent as a cat and if properly socialized can be quite friendly. Rats do not make good pets. They are cute, intelligent, friendly, and fun, but they die too soon. You just get one trained and playful, get really attached to it, and then it gets a tumor and dies. Teaches children about the life cycle I suppose, but all and all I’d rather have a pet that lives longer than 2 or 3 years. Plus it makes you feel ridiculous to explain to your non-rat-loving friends that you spent $100 on cancer surgery for an animal that only cost you $2 to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/26 "2005-06-25T17:56:51Z")
Useless data point: Growing up my best friend had many pets, including a colony of Norway rats. One of them, a female, was his favorite and he used to let her out of her cage as long as he was in the room with her. One day the rat attacked and killed his pet budgerigar which was also out of its cage and happened to be on the floor. He said they had been out together previously and always ignored each other. From what I remember of his description of the attack it was very quick, too quick for him to even react. A quick pounce and a bite or two and the budgie was dead. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/27 "2005-06-25T19:07:59Z")
[Cite](http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/pestprog/educate/ratsmice.pdf) (pops) for the OP the largest Authenticated Norway rat being 2.75 lbs What about packs of rats? Could a group of rats kill a healthy adult human? I’ll spin a semi-realistic _possible_ Willard scenario for you: With Norway Rats fairly often, the litters of numerous females will occupy the same nest, and all the young are cared for by the adults, regardless of who the true mothers are. This communal care makes the species something of a cooperative breeder. From [here](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Rattus_norvegicus.html) Anyway, imagine they are nesting in a basement in an old house and an adult woman falls through a floor and literally stumbles into the nest of 5-10 Moms - all the Moms are at home – they could attack the human then – not for predation but out of maternal instinct. Kill her? I dunno … mebe the rats’d need to be lucky - the lady unlucky – but it is not impossible ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/28 "2005-06-25T19:30:56Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > Anyway, imagine they are nesting in a basement in an old house and an adult woman falls through a floor and literally stumbles into the nest of 5-10 Moms - all the Moms are at home – they could attack the human then – not for predation but out of maternal instinct. Kill her? I dunno … mebe the rats’d need to be lucky - the lady unlucky – but it is not impossible Rats have sharp teeth, but they have small mouths. No single rat bit will be instantly fatal to a healthy adult. Rat bite death would likely be due to blood loss from hundreds of bites. Meanwhile, any adult human can kill a rat in a blow or two. So to kill your fictitious lady, the rats would have to bite again and again, 20-30 bites each before the lady grabbed and smooshed them. Rats are hard to catch if you are chasing them across the floor. They are not hard to catch if they are on your neck biting you. If the lady just lay there and allowed them to bite her without hitting back, then yes, the rats could kill her. But mice or sparrows could also kill her in this same scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/29 "2005-06-25T21:01:33Z")
My old Grandpa always used to tell me: Never put a cat and a rat in a closed room together. The rat will always win. Cats are for mice. (Just thought I’d share that 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/30 "2005-06-25T22:02:16Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > Which is an amusing image on which to end my posts to this thread, particularly as it seems like the rat has now somehow managed to burrow into your arse. **Boldface Type** I’m not sure whether you’re addressing this barb to Colibri or to Sage Rat, but it really doesn’t matter. You need to remember you’re in General Questions. That kind of comment doesn’t belong in this forum. Kindly refrain. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/31 "2005-06-27T04:47:34Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Rats may be omnivores, but they are not predators. Only a very hungry rat would stalk and kill prey bigger than an insect. Any rat will stalk and kill prey bigger than an insect if it has half a chance to do so. They aren’t fantastic predators but they are more than willing to hunt anything they poissibly can. Rats are actually surprisingly predatory. They routinely prey on nestling birds, young mammals etc. Indeed rats have traditionally beenone of the largest causes of losses of even domestic chickens, while their introduction to isolated islands inevitably leads to the extinction of native birds (and reptile, and mammal) life due to predation on eggs and nest young. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/32 "2005-06-27T17:52:31Z")
If we want to talk large rats, then the Sumatra giant Bamboo rat must be a consideration, it gets up to around 8 pounds or so. I’m not sure its actually a true rat or just a misnamed rodent. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/33 "2005-06-27T21:53:38Z")
Bamboo rats are certainly real rats. There are also African puched rats which are in the same size range. However I don’t think that either of them are particularly carnivorous and so probably pose no more threat than a black rat. In contrast the Australian water rat is highly pradatory and routinely kills birds including chickens as well as small mammals, fish and snakes. I’d be more worried about one of those vicious little buggers than a much larger primarily herbivorous rat. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/34 "2005-06-27T22:05:21Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > In contrast the Australian water rat is highly pradatory and routinely kills birds including chickens as well as small mammals, fish and snakes. I’d be more worried about one of those vicious little buggers than a much larger primarily herbivorous rat. Do you have _any_ kind of non-lethal fauna, in Australia? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/35 "2005-06-27T22:35:24Z")
There is one inoffensive Australian animal, and it’s very nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/36 "2005-06-27T23:00:56Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I’m not sure its actually a true rat or just a misnamed rodent. “Rat” is just a general name that has been applied to many unrelated medium-to-large-sized rodents. It doesn’t have any technical meaning beyond that. Neither the Sumatran Giant Bamboo Rat _Rhizomys sumatrensis_ nor African Giant Pouched Rats _Cricetomys_ sp. are particularly closely related to the Norway and Black Rats (genus _Rattus_), although they are in the same family (Muridae). ---
**Author:** ![Willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willard)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671/37 "2005-06-27T23:27:59Z")
> [@groman](#): > > I think this thread calls for an experiment… Willard? Yes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predatory-capabilities-of-rats-and-other-questions/309671.md?page=1)