# Predestination: New Heinlein movie has been made \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771 "2014-09-28T11:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/61 "2014-11-27T19:38:13Z")
Landscaping? Party planning? Otolaryngology? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/62 "2014-11-27T20:01:47Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Saw this movie and liked it except for the impossibility of the plot thing. John could not have dropped baby Joan off at the orphanage to kick things off unless John existed independently of Joan. John could not exist independently of Joan because they are the same person. > > John could not have impregnated older Joan because John couldn’t exist without Joan’s existence which would not be possible without John which would not be possible without Joan ad infinitum. I don’t follow your complaint. The story involves time travel and an odd genetic anomaly that allows dual functional sexual organs. Assuming those two characteristics, how is John prevented from traveling in time and encountering a younger version of himself to drop off at an orphanage? > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Landscaping? Party planning? Otolaryngology? Acting. Actors get the advance copies for review. Movie producers. Anyone who might vote in the Screen Actor’s Guild or Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/63 "2014-11-28T02:45:24Z")
_Predestination_ is not eligible for this year’s Oscars. It won’t be released in the U.S. (more precisely, shown in at least one theater in Los Angeles County for at least one week) until January 9, 2015. It thus would be considered for the Oscars for 2015 movies, the ceremony for which will be held in February of 2016. There is no way that the distributors of _Predestination_ would be sending out screeners now. They won’t be sending out such copies of it for another year. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/64 "2014-11-28T03:04:24Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > …Acting. Actors get the advance copies for review. Movie producers. Anyone who might vote in the Screen Actor’s Guild or Oscars. Humor. It is a difficult concept. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/65 "2014-11-28T07:11:51Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > I guess I’ll have to track down a copy of the story [removed link]. It’s 13 pages in paperback, so not a big commitment. You’re welcome. (I assume the PDF I linked to is legit enough to post here; it’s on a calpoly.edu site that I googled up.) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/66 "2014-11-28T15:03:10Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > [removed link]. It’s 13 pages in paperback, so not a big commitment. You’re welcome. > > (I assume the PDF I linked to is legit enough to post here; it’s on a calpoly.edu site that I googled up.) Probably not, no. University profs and TAs trend to be among the worst in the “I’m just borrowing it” mindset. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/67 "2014-11-28T16:39:49Z")
Thanks to **twickster** for removing the link I posted at my request. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/68 "2014-11-28T17:47:45Z")
Thanks **Squeegee** I’ve tracked it down and will absolutely read it when I have a bit more time. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/69 "2014-11-28T18:53:24Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Thanks **Squeegee** I’ve tracked it down and will absolutely read it when I have a bit more time. It’s a short work, but worth reading twice to get the nuances into place. I am extremely tickled that the movie seems to have gone so far to get every detail into it, and found a way to build a bigger framework around it. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/70 "2014-11-28T19:52:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > _Predestination_ is not eligible for this year’s Oscars. It won’t be released in the U.S. (more precisely, shown in at least one theater in Los Angeles County for at least one week) until January 9, 2015. It thus would be considered for the Oscars for 2015 movies, the ceremony for which will be held in February of 2016. There is no way that the distributors of _Predestination_ would be sending out screeners now. They won’t be sending out such copies of it for another year. That’s not what I was talking about. I doubt anyone thinks the movie has a shot at any nominations in this or next or any other year. However, if Ethan is nominated for an Oscar for Boyhood, as seems very likely, the Predestination marketing people can make ads saying something like “Starring Academy Award nominee Ethan Hawke!” to bring more attention to the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/71 "2014-11-28T20:24:35Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Emphasis mine > > He already explained how. > > Saw this movie and liked it except for the impossibility of the plot thing. John could not have dropped baby Joan off at the orphanage to kick things off unless John existed independently of Joan. John could not exist independently of Joan because they are the same person. > > John could not have impregnated older Joan because John couldn’t exist without Joan’s existence which would not be possible without John which would not be possible without Joan ad infinitum. > > Other than that it was a pretty good - if somewhat slow moving - movie. One of the few models of time travel that (some) physicists take seriously allows effects to proceed causes, but prohibits grandfather paradoxes - and “All You Zombies” is consistent with that model [Novikov self-consistency principle - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/72 "2014-11-28T21:55:31Z")
Yeah, John/Joan exists because John/Joan exists. If e existed but e didn’t exist, then there’d be a problem… but e exists and e exists, so there’s no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/73 "2014-11-28T22:30:47Z")
Equipoise writes: \> That’s not what I was talking about. I doubt anyone thinks the movie has a shot at \> any nominations in this or next or any other year. However, if Ethan is nominated \> for an Oscar for Boyhood, as seems very likely, the Predestination marketing \> people can make ads saying something like “Starring Academy Award nominee \> Ethan Hawke!” to bring more attention to the movie. I wasn’t replying to you when I was talking about when the movie will be eligible for the Oscars. I was replying to Irishman. My point was that any copy of the movie that anyone has at the moment has nothing to do with the Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/74 "2014-12-06T03:38:22Z")
Wow, I really liked this movie. I know that folks will come in eventually and blast the story and its various plot points away, but I really enjoyed the ride and I found myself genuinely drawn in by the characters. Sarah Snook was great this movie and she really has a bright career ahead if she gets the right breaks. I won’t get into spoilers at this point since I don’t think too many people have seen the movie, but if anyone wants to start talking plot points and so forth, I’m up for it. Anyway, has anyone else seen it? If not, get on it! It’s a great movie. And if Christopher Nolan had made it, it’d be getting a ton of attention. I kind of feel like it was similar to a movie he’d make, actually. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/75 "2014-12-06T04:34:06Z")
I thought it was a juvenile idea, and if you tugged at any of its threads it would fall apart, and the first half was exposition poorly hidden with clichés (telling their story in a bar while playing pool, really?). But it was competently done and I kind of liked it in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/76 "2014-12-06T10:59:52Z")
Here’s a thread where we’ve been discussing it: > **[Predestination: New Heinlein movie has been made \[edited title\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735650)** > > Predestination, based on Robert Heinlein’s short story “All You Zombies”, has been made in Australia. It stars Ethan Hawke, and has gotten a 85% rating on Rotten Tomatoes so far. Is anyone else looking forward to seeing this? O.K., I know that GuanoLad lives in Australia. Where do you live, Mahaloth? Where did you see it? Here’s a list of where it’s been release so far: > **[Predestination (2014) - Release info - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2397535/releaseinfo/?ref_=tt_dt_dt)** > > Predestination (2014) - Movies, TV, Celebs, and more... ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/77 "2014-12-06T14:28:10Z")
Merged duplicate threads, and added movie title to title of thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/78 "2014-12-07T03:13:54Z")
Wow, I apologize for not doing an adequate search for previous threads. Thanks for merging it. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/79 "2015-01-11T04:56:32Z")
Saw it yesterday and I loved it! The best thing about the movie was Sarah Snook. She did such a great job and honestly so did Ethan Hawke. I rarely watch movies but I didn’t get up once during this one. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771/80 "2015-01-17T16:12:03Z")
Watched this (on Vudu) last night. I have gone into so many Heinlein-inspired movies with high hopes and crawled out broken and bleeding that I didn’t want to let the positive reviews and discussion take me too high… but g’damn if it hasn’t finally happened. I won’t recapitulate what’s already been said - Hawke is very good, Snook is deadly, the production values are very high - but I will note that they managed to get all but one story element into the film and managed to build out the plot and story extensions from completely organic materials. Heinlein would have hated it (but been polite), because like many writers he never did come to terms with how Hollywood - using the term generally - works and has to work. But I’d call it a nearly pure Heinlein movie despite the changes. Even to being a bit… _sigh_… talky. The director pulls a lot of stagecraft in a few sections to disguise how long the exposition goes on, but on the whole I think he was successful. The changes from story to film are interesting, but I will spoiler them just to make sure. [spoiler] 1. The entire subplot about the Fizzle Bomber is made up from a single sentence in the story. “Everyone knows the Fizzle War fizzled… but they don’t know it did so because of [the Time Corps’] efforts.” 2. A first name was never given to any of the male characters. “John” is an invention - but I don’t think they could have stretched the conceit any further, so it’s okay. 3. The story is more of a raw exploration of solipsism than “predestination” - Jane/John/? was the alpha and omega of the whole universe. (I don’t have a copy of the story at hand, but I am pretty sure the word “predestination” is never used - nor, of course, solipsism. Heinlein was more subtle than to hammer such points out in iron.) The film makers used almost every line from the story, but one - “I took a pill once, and you all (‘all you zombies’) went away.” They came close, but did not quite pin that central concept to the screen. Possibly because… 4. If you read most critical discussions of the story, there is much harping on the closed loop of “Jane’s” world, ouroboros, solipsistic closure, etc. What many don’t notice, and what Heinlein was almost successful in concealing, is that the narrator and oldest avatar does escape the loop in the end, to unknown ends. I applaud the filmmakers for noticing and crafting a completely organic way to close the loop.[/spoiler] A fine and worthy work from the old man’s stuff. Finally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predestination-new-heinlein-movie-has-been-made-edited-title/699771.md?page=5)