# Predict: Likelihood Palin will show for the debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866 "2008-09-30T16:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/81 "2008-09-30T22:05:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But there is a fairly blatant double standard hereabouts. Palin can’t read Gibson’s mind and tell what he means by the Bush Doctrine (did you know that Krauthammer, who invented the term, wrote a piece detailing that Gibson’s understanding of it was mistaken?). This means she is a complete idiot and unqualified and Gibson tries to scold her for it. The phrase “Bush Doctrine” is not a confusing, constantly amorphous set of strange and arcane points. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine) lays it out in simple terms, and in fact the phrase has been in use, as you point out, at least since 26 February 2001, when Charles Krauthammer used it in a piece he wrote for CNN. [link](http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2001/03/05/doctrine.html) It is widely viewed as the single most important foreign policy directive that this administration has had, and has been referenced constantly by the press, politicians, and even by members of the Bush administration, including Vice President Cheney. > [@Dick Cheney](#): > > In this war we’ve assembled a broad coalition of civilized nations that recognize the danger and are working with us on all fronts. The President has made very clear that there is no neutral ground in the fight against terror. Those who harbor terrorists share guilt for the acts they commit. **Under the Bush Doctrine, a regime that harbors or supports terrorists will be regarded as hostile to the United States.** [cite](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020826.html) The meaning of the phrase is quite clear, has a history of more than 7 years usage, and Gov. Palin did not know it. > [@Shodan](#): > > Palin says she has foreign policy experience because Russia is next to Alaska. This is roundly condemned. **Obama says he has foreign policy experience because he lived in Kenya and Hawaii when he was a kid.** _:crickets chirping:_ I have never heard him make this claim, nor have I heard of him making this claim. Can you please provide a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/82 "2008-09-30T22:24:40Z")
One thing is certain, forests of virtual trees will be destroyed discussing the debate _ad nauseum_ which will be a bunch of sound an fury signifying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/83 "2008-09-30T22:31:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The phrase “Bush Doctrine” is not a confusing, constantly amorphous set of strange and arcane points. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine) lays it out in simple terms, and in fact the phrase has been in use, as you point out, at least since 26 February 2001, when Charles Krauthammer used it in a piece he wrote for CNN. [link](http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2001/03/05/doctrine.html) > > It is widely viewed as the single most important foreign policy directive that this administration has had, and has been referenced constantly by the press, politicians, and even by members of the Bush administration, including Vice President Cheney. > > [cite](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020826.html) > > The meaning of the phrase is quite clear, has a history of more than 7 years usage, and Gov. Palin did not know it. > > I have never heard him make this claim, nor have I heard of him making this claim. Can you please provide a cite? This is not the fundmental tenet of the Bush Doctrine as I understand it, and even your own cite says so. The Bush Doctrine justifies preemptive military strikes (among other responses) in cases when the president decides the threat from another nation is sufficiently severe, and it is accompanied by some ill-defined evil intentions toward us. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/84 "2008-09-30T22:40:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh, yeah, Palin will show up. > > I hope she cries. I have to say that I am laughing so much, reading these threads. If nothing else, Palin has enlivened a moribund custom i.e., the 4 year nonsense. I confess I can no longer separate the Tina Fey Palin from the Alaska Palin. It will take some media exposure (the debate, perhaps) to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/85 "2008-09-30T22:42:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m sure she’ll be spouting talking points - the question is whether she can access the correct point for a question. More than likely she’ll be able to, given the proper coaching. In her favor: her subpar and occasionally downright embarassing performances during the extended news interviews will make a “C” effort during the debate look golden by comparison. And if Biden goes after her aggressively it’ll be spun as Mean Old Pol bullies Our Sarah (the exception being if she blurts out something memorably stupid and Biden gets to do a Bentsenesque “you’re no Eleanor Roosevelt” deal on her). Because as we know, these “debates” are about goofs and gotchas, not about leaders thinking on their feet and eloquently and nimbly defending their ideals when hard-pressed by tough questions. Palin will survive. Democrats who are hoping for a knockout here will have to settle for at best a moderate win on points, which Republicans will madly spin as a success for their moose-slaying street fighterette. On to November. Please, let it end. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/86 "2008-09-30T22:45:27Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Broken bones aren’t. Neither are deep infectious wounds. > > Like that has anything to do with this thread. And speaking of things that have nothing to do with this thread: yes, your left nut is always your left nut. They’re attached in there on their respective sides, unless something horrible and painful happens to you, lefty will stay left. [Insert your own “left”/“right” political stance/testicle joke here.] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/87 "2008-09-30T22:46:45Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I have to say that I am laughing so much, reading these threads. If nothing else, Palin has enlivened a moribund custom i.e., the 4 year nonsense. > I confess I can no longer separate the Tina Fey Palin from the Alaska Palin. It will take some media exposure (the debate, perhaps) to do just that. This VP debate is the ONLY debate that I’ve ever considered watching for sheer entertainment value. Sarah reminds me of the dumb guy played by Ashton Kutcher on _That 70’s Show_. They have about the same vocabulary, and even their comic timing is similar. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/88 "2008-09-30T22:47:40Z")
[Tin Foil Hat On]What if… it turns out Sarah Palin is basically the Rain[wo]man of politics… brilliant and astute and a library of information (“Hong Kong… yeah… 22 15 North, 114 10 East, population 7,018,636… that’s not counting Liu Chiang who may have had a baby this morning it’s her third baby probably a boy, yeah, definitely due today that would make it 7,018,637… $42,109.21 in GDP per capita, Chief Executive Donald Tsang, he’s a Roman Catholic born October 7 1944 it was a Tuesday there was rain that began at 2:38 a.m…”) **BUT** to keep this secret they’ve put that press burka around her to lull Biden, known for gaffes, into a sense of false security. He’s walking into an ambush worthy of Saladin…[/Tin Foil Hat Off] Either way, she’ll be there. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/89 "2008-09-30T23:07:29Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > This shit is infuriating. I don’t even watch the debates because of it. I think that every time any candidate pulls that crap, the moderator should yell, “THAT WASN’T THE FUCKING QUESTION! SHUT YOUR WEASELY FUCKING MOUTH AND ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED!” and keep doing it, all night if necessary, until they finally give a valid answer to what they were asked. FWIW, I was yelling this at the television. But as my wife reminds me during every hockey game, the people in the television cannot hear me no matter how loud I yell. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/90 "2008-09-30T23:24:50Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Now that’s some quality bigotry. I think your inability to admit that she might have even the smallest, eensy-teeniest shred of qualification speaks volumes about your rationality. Bigotry? Are you mad? I don’t think that means what you think it means. You need to understand that not everyone is like you. It is possible for people to look dispassionately at a candidate’s qualifications and make an informed decision about whether they think that person is qualified. It is also possible for a person to say that a candidate is unqualified without it being a personal attack against that candidate. Just because you are incapable of making a decision based on anything other than what the right wing spin machine tells you to think, doesn’t mean everyone else does the same. Of course, you won’t understand any of this, when I talk about objectivity and careful contemplation I’m not even speaking your language. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/91 "2008-09-30T23:26:07Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > FWIW, I was yelling this at the television. But as my wife reminds me during every hockey game, the people in the television cannot hear me no matter how loud I yell. I suggest yelling even louder in an attempt to prove her wrong. That’s what I’d do, but then I’m divorced, so the way I approach these types of things may not be beneficial to the health of long-term relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/92 "2008-09-30T23:32:37Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I just had an I Love Lucy Flashback… “To scrape the barnacles from her hull!” I sure hope the sap doesn’t run every two years. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/93 "2008-09-30T23:52:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > This is not the fundmental tenet of the Bush Doctrine as I understand it, and even your own cite says so. The Bush Doctrine justifies preemptive military strikes (among other responses) in cases when the president decides the threat from another nation is sufficiently severe, and it is accompanied by some ill-defined evil intentions toward us. I’m not sure what “this” refers to, since I personally did not spell out any part of the Bush Doctrine. If you are referring to the quote from VP Cheney, please note that he says “under the Bush Doctrine”, and then delineates consequences for those nations or peoples harboring and/or aiding terrorists. He does not define the Bush Doctrine; he only speaks about it. At any rate, the point of that part of my post is that the doctrine, (which can be read in full in the [National Security Strategy](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss/2002/index.html) published 20 September 2002, and later [updated](http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss/2006/) in 2006) is not a shifting, multi-faceted, ever-changing thing. Shodan wrote: > [@Shodan](#): > > Palin can’t read Gibson’s mind and tell what he means by the Bush Doctrine My point is that Gibson didn’t “mean” anything that isn’t quite clear. This has been our country’s guiding piece of foreign policy for more than 7 1/2 years. We started 2 wars because of it, after all. And Gov. Palin did not know what it was. She had no clue. btw, my cite does indeed list as the fundamental tenet of the Bush Doctrine: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan. It was only later that the wording was amended to include more encompassing language, i.e. > [@National Security Strategy](#): > > To forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries, the United States will, if necessary, act preemptively in exercising our inherent right of self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/94 "2008-09-30T23:58:55Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > I would totally watch the debates if this were how they were run. Ah, you mean if they weren’t worthless pieces of crap? Sure, that might happen - if the media wasn’t corporately owned and operated. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/95 "2008-10-01T00:09:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Find a post in which I said that McCain was justified in canceling his participation in the first debate. Now Don’t Call Me Shirley is apparently convinced that I have said that. Unfortunately… For Chrissake, you said “What McCain did was honorable and correct.” That close enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/96 "2008-10-01T00:22:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > 😛 Too be sure. No doubt Biden won’t spout a single talking point, but instead give reasoned and spontaneous (and focused and cogent) answers to all questions! > > And monkeys will probably fly out of his ass too! An idiotic post included with a smiley. You’re slipping back into old habits, dude. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/97 "2008-10-01T00:25:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It seems to me that I give as much credit to McCain and Palin as most of the Usual Suspects do to Obama and Biden. > > But Sarah Palin has more or less achieved the same position on the SDMB as Bush has. Any hint of support, or even a hint of dissent from the prevailing hysteria of condemnation, is enough to trigger the onslaught. > > But there is a fairly blatant double standard hereabouts. Palin can’t read Gibson’s mind and tell what he means by the Bush Doctrine (did you know that Krauthammer, who invented the term, wrote a piece detailing that Gibson’s understanding of it was mistaken?). This means she is a complete idiot and unqualified and Gibson tries to scold her for it. Biden says he thinks Roosevelt went on TV in 1929 to talk about the stock market crash, and it is ignored. > > Palin says she has foreign policy experience because Russia is next to Alaska. This is roundly condemned. Obama says he has foreign policy experience because he lived in Kenya and Hawaii when he was a kid. _:crickets chirping:_ > > The thing of it is, the Usual Suspects are idiots. Extremists, as a rule, cannot think in any terms that aren’t extreme. So they believe that the only two possible alternatives are:[ul][li]utter, ranting hatred for Palin (and Bush, and any other Republican who seems to be at risk for making it to the Oval Office), or [\*]the kind of slavish adulation they feel for any Democrat who is at risk for the same.[/ul]But do a quick experiment, if you like. [/li] > Find a post in which I said that McCain was justified in canceling his participation in the first debate. Now **Don’t Call Me Shirley** is apparently convinced that I have said that. Unfortunately… > > Not all of the SDMB, but all of the Usual Suspects, are knee-jerkers, and they are projecting. They assume that everyone else is like them. They look at most issues, decide which is the politically correct side (nearly always Democratic and/or liberal), plump for that, and then and only then look around for reasons to justify their choice. And on a board like this one, where a sizable contingent of the participants in political threads spend a large amount of their leisure time combing the left-wing blogs looking for rationalizations to do _anything_, they can count on some other nutcase to back them up, no matter how bizarre their position might be. > > I don’t have that. Fortunately, I don’t need it. I can tell when I am winning a debate by other means. > > If they try to set up a strawman, I am winning. If they begin screaming insults, I am winning. And when they try to put words in my mouth, they know I am winning. > > There are a number of folks on the SDMB with whom one can have lively and interesting discussions. There are a number of others who serve only as bad examples, and are useful only for the amusement gained in laughing at them. And for them to admit their errors serves no necessary part in the amusement. > > Like my dad once told me, if you pitch a rock at a pack of dogs, and one of them starts howling, that’s the one you hit. **Don’t Call Me Shirley** is howling, that’s all. > > Regards, > Shodan Whenever I read this delusional, hypocritical dribble from **“Regards, Shodan”** it makes me laugh. This guy is such a pathetic caricature of right wing extremism that I can’t imagine why there are still a few remaining suckers here who waste their time getting into lengthy debates with him. Thankfully their numbers are dwindling. And there’s a very good reason why people use him as an example of a mindless wingnut: he’s earned it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/98 "2008-10-01T01:42:20Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > But as my wife reminds me during every hockey game, the people in the television cannot hear me no matter how loud I yell. Lies! It’s a well-known fact that shouting at the TV and certain hand gestures get communicated over the air. I myself kept McCain from mentioning his POW status all night Friday until distracted by Fritos. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/99 "2008-10-01T02:09:07Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] An idiotic post included with a smiley. You’re slipping back into old habits, dude. [/QUOTE] Oh, to be sure. The smiley was for the humor impaired. I’m sad that you seem to be one of them. Have you considered a 12 step program…? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866/100 "2008-10-01T02:09:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Lies! It’s a well-known fact that shouting at the TV and certain hand gestures get communicated over the air. I myself kept McCain from mentioning his POW status all night Friday until distracted by Fritos. Ya’ll aren’t doing my wife any favors, especially with hockey and debate season starting.🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-likelihood-palin-will-show-for-the-debate/465866.md?page=6)