# Predict the Outcome of Florida vs. George Zimmerman **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528 "2013-06-21T01:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/21 "2013-06-21T17:21:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think Zimmerman is factually innocent of second degree murder. > I think he’s factually guilty of manslaughter. > > Since the jury doesn’t have the choice of manslaughter, they should acquit, and I believe they will. > > No vote on the poll quite captures that option. You’ve never engaged an argument for manslaughter. you post it and walk away. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/22 "2013-06-21T17:30:55Z")
Based on what we have now, I believe the jury would convict for manslaughter, not necessarily because the prosecution would prove it, but because there is this inherent feeling that he did wrong, and thus a lesser charge seems like a compromise. But I hold **Bricker** ’s old opinion (which he convinced me of)–that they wouldn’t have charged with Murder 2 unless they have something better than what we’ve seen. It’s been a while, so I’m hazy on the law, so I’m not sure if there is factual proof of manslaughter as defined on the books, and would invite **Bricker** to elucidate. In my mind, what I believe happened is more likely manslaughter than not. And, based on what we have to date, I see no reason to think it was Murder 2. Finally, I’d be satisfied with the outcome even if Zimmerman is acquitted. My primary reason for supporting punishment is not retribution but deterrence. And I think what has happened to Zimmerman is sufficient to deter this sort of thing from happening again. I’m pretty dispassionate about all this case, all things considered, as long as I’m not arguing with someone who I think is saying stupid things. To me it’s just a legal thing now. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/23 "2013-06-21T17:31:44Z")
I think Zimmerman will be acquited, then murdered within the year. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/24 "2013-06-21T17:39:23Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I think Zimmerman will be acquited, then murdered within the year. Murdered? Or killed in self defense? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/25 "2013-06-21T17:41:30Z")
As long as he doesn’t look at any houses when he walks down a sidewalk, he should be safe. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/26 "2013-06-21T17:47:33Z")
Awfully suspicious, isn’t it? Walking around, not looking at anything… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/27 "2013-06-21T18:00:28Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > As long as he doesn’t look at any houses when he walks down a sidewalk, he should be safe. Well Martin wasn’t so why should Zimmerman. Now if Zimmerman decides to beat someone for 38+ seconds then maybe he will get shot by someone defending himself. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/28 "2013-06-21T18:14:05Z")
That’s nice. New safety tip everybody – never, _ **NEVER** _, look at a house, when walking down a sidewalk! This is why we can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/29 "2013-06-21T18:25:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’ve never engaged an argument for manslaughter. you post it and walk away. I’ve touched on it, but, yes, I haven’t gone into huge detail. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/30 "2013-06-21T18:25:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > That’s nice. New safety tip everybody – never, _ **NEVER** _, look at a house, when walking down a sidewalk! > > This is why we can’t have nice things. Yes, don’t trespass on someone’s property in the rain at night and look it over. someone might call the police. Also, never attack someone and beat them mercilessly unless you know they’re unarmed. It’s amazing that you ignore that Martin liked street fighting or that his girlfriend warned him he was going to get shot or that he deliberately confronted Zimmerman twice instead of simply going home. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/31 "2013-06-21T18:38:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve touched on it, but, yes, I haven’t gone into huge detail. Yes, I’m really interested in this line of thought by you and other lawyers. And the question has been poised about pursuing this lesser charge. I think you answered it before but I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/32 "2013-06-21T18:44:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, don’t trespass on someone’s property in the rain at night and look it over. someone might call the police. > > Also, never attack someone and beat them mercilessly unless you know they’re unarmed. > > It’s amazing that you ignore that Martin liked street fighting or that his girlfriend warned him he was going to get shot or that he deliberately confronted Zimmerman twice instead of simply going home. Take it to the other thread Mr. Walking Down A Sidewalk Is Tresspassing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/33 "2013-06-21T19:20:16Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Take it to the other thread Mr. Walking Down A Sidewalk Is Tresspassing. There is no sidewalk where Martin was seen by Zimmerman. Here are the coordinates of where Zimmerman said he saw him. 28°47’36.46"N, 81°19’55.36"W which you can plug into google maps or google earth. It’s 1350 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, FL 32771 Your either on someone’s property or standing in the street. OH, and you can take your lack of facts to another thread. You continually misrepresent what took place. Martin was not assaulted for trespassing or acting suspicious. The proper action in such a case would be to call the police. This is near the location where the police had been called to and chased down thieves who had the possessions on them of the people in that housing development. They were caught because someone called the police on suspicious activity. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/34 "2013-06-21T19:25:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no sidewalk where Martin was seen by Zimmerman. Here are the coordinates of where Zimmerman said he saw him. 28°47’36.46"N, 81°19’55.36"W which you can plug into google maps or google earth. > > It’s 1350 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, FL 32771 > > Your either on someone’s property or standing in the street. > > OH, and you can take your lack of facts to another thread. You continually misrepresent what took place. Martin was not assaulted for trespassing or acting suspicious. The proper action in such a case would be to call the police. This is near the location where the police had been called to and chased down thieves who had the possessions of the people in that housing development. They were caught because someone called the police on suspicious activity. Standing on someone’s property isn’t necessarily trespassing. You should really read up on what the word means, legally, before you go throwing out baseless accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/35 "2013-06-21T19:35:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Standing on someone’s property isn’t necessarily trespassing. You should really read up on what the word means, legally, before you go throwing out baseless accusations. I read the definition long ago when posting about this. Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. And the concern in this case is not the harm caused the grass but the suspicious nature of the act itself. Zimmerman knew the owner of the house and knew Martin was not that person. By itself that is reason to be suspicious of someone’s activity. Add to it the cover of rain and darkness and that increases the likelihood that the person exhibiting this behavior is up to no good. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/36 "2013-06-21T22:28:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve touched on it, but, yes, I haven’t gone into huge detail. It doesn’t seem that you have made any secret of your assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/37 "2013-06-21T22:36:30Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > It doesn’t seem that you have made any secret of your assessment. not really. Bricker’s discussions have dealt with 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is a different charge altogether. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/38 "2013-06-21T23:25:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no sidewalk where Martin was seen by Zimmerman. Here are the coordinates of where Zimmerman said he saw him. 28°47’36.46"N, 81°19’55.36"W which you can plug into google maps or google earth. > > It’s 1350 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, FL 32771 > > Your either on someone’s property or standing in the street. That’s not true here. We have no sidewalk in front of our house, but the town owns the land in to about ten feet from the road edge. My understanding is that that is fairly common. I don’t know if it’s true at this spot. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/39 "2013-06-21T23:52:57Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > That’s not true here. We have no sidewalk in front of our house, but the town owns the land in to about ten feet from the road edge. My understanding is that that is fairly common. I don’t know if it’s true at this spot. These condo’s are 20 feet from the curb and not houses that are set back from the road so that distance would be halfway. This is a gated community and not a township road. Even if the township “owns” the land for purposes of sewer lines and such the homeowner is expected to maintain it and it’s use is considered that of the homeowners. You can’t pitch a tent on it and expect to do so free and clear. Now think of the point you’re trying to make. A person is seen standing in the grassy area of a condo looking at the building. He is not the owner, it’s dark out and raining. This community has been hit with a string of burglaries and the house in question was thought to have been broken into. All Zimmerman did was observe suspicious behavior and follow up on it with a call to police. He didn’t attack Martin like a wannabe cop. He didn’t confront Martin even though Martin came to him. He demonstrated good judgement when asked not to follow Martin. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/40 "2013-06-22T05:04:25Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > This is Florida. He’s going to get off. Even though he was told to stop pursuing the kid and wasn’t supposed to be carrying a gun, he’s going to get off. GZ wasn’t told to stop pursuing anyone and the State of Florida allowed GZ to carry a concealed firearm in the state of Florida. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528.md?page=3)