# Predict the Outcome of Florida vs. George Zimmerman **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528 "2013-06-21T01:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/101 "2013-06-28T05:19:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …Of course; **they** want things like this to happen. The Heroic Avatar Of The Second Amendment killing one of the Filthy Black Subhumans. Fantasies about slaughtering the Black/Brown Criminal Horde is a prominent aspect of the gun fetishist movement. **We’ve** seen that from the beginning in this case with the constant attempts to portray the victim as a Scary Black Man, and therefore deserving of summary execution by that holiest of instruments, the Gun. ROFLMAO - You’re a hoot. Just for clarity purposes, who is this “they” that you referred to? I’m also not sure who this “We’ve” you referred to as having seen “something” from the beginning. Your post is very confusing. Can anyone play or are you hunting in your private preserve? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/102 "2013-06-28T12:31:44Z")
If there’s anything this thread doesn’t need, it’s a trip thru the darker recesses of La-La Land. Apparently the mods think it’s OK for him to spout this kind of thing about events and people in the real world. That’s too bad, but let’s not encourage it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/103 "2013-06-28T16:15:46Z")
What **Shodan** said. Please don’t encourage his delusions of adequacy. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/104 "2013-07-02T02:34:38Z")
And in the beginning of the second week… [George Zimmerman Prosecution’s Woes](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-prosecutions-woes/story?id=19541263#.UdI7MtiE5LJ) > [@](#): > > By most accounts, last week was not what the state in the George Zimmerman case would have hoped for. In one way or another, more than half of the prosecution witnesses supported Zimmerman’s account of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed. and > [@](#): > > Even the prosecution’s effort to show that Zimmerman was an over-eager, wannabe cop backfired when a witness from the Sanford Police Department, testifying as part of the prosecution’s case, admitted that she tried to recruit Zimmerman for a citizen’s patrol and that “George was very professional, a little meek, really wanted to make community better.” I’m thinking that the rest of this trial is going to amount to arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/105 "2013-07-03T15:58:20Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > And in the beginning of the second week… > > [George Zimmerman Prosecution’s Woes](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-prosecutions-woes/story?id=19541263#.UdI7MtiE5LJ) > > and > > I’m thinking that the rest of this trial is going to amount to arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Yeah. You’ve gotta love the state’s “expert witness” testifying that Zimmerman’s head injury was not life threatening. Because everybody knows that when somebody hits your head against the sidewalk, you should wait for your injuries to reach life-threatening levels before defending yourself. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/106 "2013-07-03T17:26:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yeah, _suuure_ he did. This was a gun nut who went off looking for a fight and killed someone. And people are trying to excuse it because Guns Are Holy and because the victim was black, and therefore automatically deserved death. Wow… you REALLY believe that? You REALLY believe GZ set out that night to kill a black man? You do not believe in any way that he “might” have been attacked? What evidence other than your blind reverse racism tells you this? And for the record, I think GZ should be guilty of manslaughter but not 2nd degree murder AND that the Florida law is patently stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/107 "2013-07-03T18:09:18Z")
Barring some last minute piece of evidence from the prosecution or a complete failure of the jury, it’s pretty clear Zimmerman will walk. The states case is weak and has been from the beginning. How 74 of 166 people could think Zimmerman is guilty(so far) is completely flabbergasting. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/108 "2013-07-03T18:23:39Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > How 74 of 166 people could think Zimmerman is guilty(so far) is completely flabbergasting. Emotions vs. brains. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/109 "2013-07-03T18:27:30Z")
I don’t think he’s guilty of 2nd degree murder; but I think Trayvon Martin’s death is on him – he should be held responsible. That option wasn’t available in the poll. I fully expect him to walk too. Florida is fucked up that way - 17 year old walking home from store shot by tough guy with a gun … eh, shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/110 "2013-07-05T10:56:13Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I voted that under the law he is innocent and the jury will most likely agree. That said, Travon would also have been innocent if he shot Zimmerman and he had more of a cause to. It is a stupid law and these kind of stupid, horrible things will continue to happen under it. Whatever the jury finds, George Zimmerman will always be guilty of being an asshole and 100% responsible for the events of that night. ++. (I voted “other” in the Poll because “innocent” is the wrong word to apply to GZ even if technically Not Guilty of Murder in Law.) ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/111 "2013-07-05T12:02:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think Zimmerman is factually innocent of second degree murder. > I think he’s factually guilty of manslaughter. > > Since the jury doesn’t have the choice of manslaughter, they should acquit, and I believe they will. > > No vote on the poll quite captures that option. This, basically, although I thought the jury had the option of coming back with a manslaughter / reckless homicide verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/112 "2013-07-05T13:25:57Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > This, basically, although I thought the jury had the option of coming back with a manslaughter / reckless homicide verdict. It depends on what instructions they’re given, which in turn depends on what the evidence shows and the prosecution and defense can negotiate. Since we’ve yet to see the defense’s case, it may well be that the evidence supports a manslaughter instruction. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/113 "2013-07-05T13:42:11Z")
Question for **Bricker**. The State has essentially gotten all of Zimmerman’s statements into evidence. My personal view is that there are numerous - well, I’ll call them ‘inconsistencies’ - in Zimmerman’s accounts. I also think there are a number of aspects of Zimmerman’s account that seem very implausible. For example: length of time between end of NEN call vs start of confrontation. Distance and length of time involved for Martin to walk up the cut-through and turn right, come back down the cut-through, circle George’s car, run back up the cut-through etc. How could Martin see George’s gun. How the hell could George even get to his gun, let alone point & shoot, with his right arm, which was trapping Martin’s arm at the time. How did he end up stumbling directly -south- down the doggie path when he said he stepped backwards _west_ towards his truck as Martin approached from the south-east, and got punched in the nose which should have pushed him further north-west. Zimmerman says at one point that the screams ‘don’t sound like him’. Zimmerman gives different accounts on whether Martin actually touched the gun or not. Different accounts as to whether the first punched knocked him down or not. Etc etc etc. I think the State has done a spectacularly bad job of connecting the dots for the jury. Some of us on these boards have been reading about the case rather extensively for months; we are very aware of some of the minute details. We’ve had time to read and re-read statements, listen multiple times to various recordings, watch the walk-through video numerous times. There’s no way the jury will have even noticed, let alone considered, some of the things that some of us here have picked up on and think important. Can or will the prosecution call some witness to help them go through these inconsistencies? Or will they have to wait until closing arguments - after the defense has finished? If they don’t connect the dots for the jury I think the State is absolutely toast. They might be already, granted, but at the very least I think they’ve done a amazingly poor job of things so far. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/114 "2013-07-05T13:49:08Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If they don’t connect the dots for the jury I think the State is absolutely toast. They might be already, granted, but at the very least I think they’ve done a amazingly poor job of things so far. I agree that the state has done a poor job at this. I’m not sure what witnesses the state has left – I had assumed they’d be resting Wednesday evening. It’s certainly possible to use a prepped witness to highlight these issues: Q: Detective, did Mr. Zimmerman tell you Martin touched the gun? A: Mr. Zimmerman gave two different answers to that question, sir. When I interviewed him, he said thus-and-so, and when Detective X spoke to him, he said the opposite. They can certainly also bring it up in closing arguments, but that’s generally considered a less than ideal tactic – you’re asking the jury to recall two separate pieces of testimony that you never highlighted as important during the trial. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/115 "2013-07-05T14:05:03Z")
The state did introduce the inconsistencies, but the defense was able to put on the record that the investigators (who, we have to remember, do this for a living) didn’t think the inconsistencies added up to anything more than they’d expect from anyone in a case like this. The defense even got the investigator to admit (even though the judge instructed the jury to disregard the statement–hours after it happened) that he thought Zimmerman was telling the truth. We’ve done a lot of talking in these threads about “fight or flight” as it relates to both Martin and Zimmerman. I’ve personally been scolded about my own Monday morning quarterbacking and trying to apply logic/rationality to what I think I’d do in Zimmerman’s (or Martin’s) spot, because, essentially, we just don’t _know_ who was feeling fear, and how much, etc. So, my question becomes this: if both men are, at the very least, feeling adrenaline and both men are undergoing psychological and physiological stress, then why seize on relatively minor inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story? If you’ve been in, say, a fight, or a car accident, have you not experienced “time dilation”? Where things slow down, you get tunnel vision, all of the elements of stress? In a situation like that, don’t seconds _seem_ like minutes? Yet Zimmerman is supposed to have perfect recall? Really? And remember–his statement to his friend about Martin grabbing the gun wasn’t under oath or sworn. Neither was the Hannity interview. So, worst-case scenario for Zimmerman is that he lied to some people, but not in a way that would indicate perjury in court. (I know Wikipedia isn’t a scholarly source, but hey…[Effects of stress on memory - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_stress_on_memory)) Given the cited effects of stress on memory, I’d conclude that the consistencies in Zimmerman’s story, and how they match with the evidence, outweigh the inconsistencies. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/116 "2013-07-05T18:36:34Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Yet Zimmerman is supposed to have perfect recall? Really? > \ > Given the cited effects of stress on memory, I’d conclude that the consistencies in Zimmerman’s story, and how they match with the evidence, outweigh the inconsistencies. Interestingly, every single inconsistency is both extremely specific - not something that would be mis-remembered - and relates to George trying to say that he did absolutely nothing to escalate the situation while Martin was the aggressor. Martin came back and circled my truck. I wasn’t following Martin; I got out of the truck to look for a street sign. I wasn’t trying to find Martin, who had already skipped away. I was headed right back to his truck after hanging up from the NEN call, there was no 2-minute gap. I stepped back away from Martin when approached me from behind; I was reaching for my phone to dial 911, because I’m sure the possibly drugged, possibly armed, up-to-no-good asshole punk would just wait quietly while I dialed 911 right in front of him. Sorry, I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/117 "2013-07-05T18:44:52Z")
In the meantime - the trainwreck that is the M.E. testimony continues. Between Dee Dee, the Skype testimony disaster, and now this M.E., I can’t remember such a shambles of a prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/118 "2013-07-06T02:38:28Z")
[quote=“DragonAsh, post:116, topic:661528”] Interestingly, every single inconsistency is both extremely specific - not something that would be mis-remembered - and relates to George trying to say that he did absolutely nothing to escalate the situation while Martin was the aggressor. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Martin came back and circled my truck. where is the evidence this didn’t happen? > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I wasn’t following Martin; cite that he’s made this claim because he already admitted this on the phone. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I got out of the truck to look for a street sign. cite your evidence that this didn’t happen. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I wasn’t trying to find Martin, who had already skipped away. What possible reason could you give to suggest Zimmerman wasn’t watching for signs of Martin? It was the whole point of the phone call to the police. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I was headed right back to his truck after hanging up from the NEN call, there was no 2-minute gap. Martin takes 45 minutes to walk .8 miles and you’re concerned about Zimmerman walking slowly to his truck? The evidence shows the fight started at the top of the T and in a location consistent with him walking to his truck. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I stepped back away from Martin when approached me from behind; I was reaching for my phone to dial 911, because I’m sure the possibly drugged, possibly armed, up-to-no-good asshole punk would just wait quietly while I dialed 911 right in front of him. So he should assume Martin is violent and shoot him? We know from Martin himself, through a witness that would be hostile to Zimmerman, that Martin started the confrontation and there is no indication that Zimmerman responded in a way that suggests he was hostile. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Sorry, I don’t buy it. without evidence to back up your assertions you’re just pounding square pegs into round holes in an attempt to make things fit. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/119 "2013-07-06T04:28:27Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:118, topic:661528”] > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Martin takes 45 minutes to walk .8 miles and you’re concerned about Zimmerman walking slowly to his truck? The evidence shows the fight started at the top of the T and in a location consistent with him walking to his truck. Did Martin tell anyone that he was going to be walking directly home from the 7-Eleven? This is evidence of what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/120 "2013-07-08T18:19:45Z")
Time for the Monday bump. Not following the trial on TV, but I understand that after an abysmal production by the prosecution, the floor is now in control of the defense. In the end of last week’s polling the not guilty/acquitted caught up with the guilty/acquitted votes. I presume this bump was from members paying attention to the evidence presented during the week. Does the defense really need to do much more than go through the motions at this point? From what I’ve read on the proceedings, the prosecution’s witnesses did at least as much good for the defense as for the prosecution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528.md?page=7)