# Predict the wingnuttery to come **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903 "2008-11-03T19:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/61 "2008-11-03T21:07:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Despite my best efforts, you insist that our relationship be defined by hostility. So be it. Hostility? Hell yes! It stems from the fact that you have never shown me anything but the back of your hand. Your attempts to be glib fall well short of what I would find humorous. > [@](#): > > That is my honest opinion! We have wasted far too much effort on this, and it just ain’t practical. There are millions of the cursed things out there, and no law within human purview will make them go away. They’re metal, and they don’t rot. Hell, my Texas daddy had a 1911 Colt, and it could still kill a mugger. Or a stupid child, just as easily. Agreed. > [@](#): > > But I stone hate handguns, because I hate fear. Fear is the mortal enemy of joy, and I will not cooperate. I’ve been robbed at gunpoint three times, and my best guess is that all three of them are dead, in prison, or leading lives so miserable that no punishment I might inflict would matter. And I endure, and love is mine. Handguns do not in any way indicate fear or lack of joy. That you choose to define them in that manner is entirely on you. What, no difference of opinion is tolerated, you have the final word? > [@](#): > > You gonna stand there and tell me that you don’t know anybody who owns a gun that you’d rather not? That they are all sterling examples of reason and humanity, and can be trusted to possess lethal force? Of course I do. I know people that are too stupid to breathe. That does not mean that I have the right to determine what they may or may not do. That is why we have a Constitution and a judicial system. > [@](#): > > But there is nothing to be done, they are there, and they ain’t going away. So I consider anti-gun crusades futile and pointless. You’ll either catch on, or you won’t. We may not have bigger fish to fry, but at least we can stick to the one’s we can actually do something about. I have nothing to catch on to. My opinion is different from yours. That tolerance thing that I keep hearing about, maybe you can work on that a little bit. How about it? As far as having bigger fish to fry, I think you’ll find that the Democrats will find the time to try to cook the little fish as well. I don’t think they’ll be able to, but they will surely try. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/62 "2008-11-03T21:14:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Oh, the irony! It buuuurns! Perhaps you should put some ointment on that. We already have the [human rights tribunals](http://www.theinterim.com/2008/feb/12humanrights.html)in Canada, and nobody on the left in either Canada or the United States seems the least bit disturbed by it.\* That does little to reassure me about the left’s commitment to free speech. \*Of course, no one expected a Canadian Inquisition … ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/63 "2008-11-03T21:19:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The last one. Good enough, and a hearty fuck you back at ya! ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/64 "2008-11-03T21:21:04Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I honestly don’t know. I think that the Democratic constituency is also changing, given the performance we are likely to see in heretofore red states. I think it would be a considerable political mistake to continue to restrict gun ownership lest we on the left see this newfound support erode. Many of the Democratic congressmen elected as anti-Republican candidates in these redder states are certainly not going to be anti-gun, so there is also little reason to believe a consistently anti-firearm regime would survive the legislature. I hope you are right. Thanks for a reasoned reply. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/65 "2008-11-03T21:23:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We have a culture? Loud, shiny crap is a culture? And that, in a nutshell, is why I believe the left is fundamentally anti-democratic. In the eyes of the average leftie, there is nothing worth preserving in America’s culture or society, so they are justified in making any changes they please without regard for the principle of majority rule. But I suspect you thought you were being funny. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/66 "2008-11-03T21:25:35Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Hostility? Hell yes! It stems from the fact that you have never shown me anything but the back of your hand… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9294546&postcount=46](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9294546&postcount=46) > [@](#): > > Dude, for all the insults I have hurled at you in the past, for all the differences in opinion we have had, for pretty much everything I have ever said to you in the past and most assuredly in the future, for pretty much everything at all, you have never been as close to the truth as you are with this statement. God bless you. For all of my pretense at intelligence, this is what I wish I had been able to say. Thank you. One of use has memory issues, but then, one of us is rather old, with a history of psychoactive chemicals. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/67 "2008-11-03T21:26:26Z")
I’d like to exercise my right as the OP and blow the whistle. An honest debate on gun control laws is not “wingnuttery”, as I picture it. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/68 "2008-11-03T21:27:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You do get newspapers where you live, do you not? I’m stunned that you believe that the recent/current Republican administration has even a modicum of respect for the constitution. Habeas corpus? Illegal wiretapping? Secret prisons in foreign lands? Torture? Hello? Beuller? Furthermore you don’t actually need laws regarding free speech when you create a culture where questioning the executive is considered tantamount to saying “I’m with the terrorists”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/69 "2008-11-03T21:27:51Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Perhaps you should put some ointment on that. We already have the [human rights tribunals](http://www.theinterim.com/2008/feb/12humanrights.html)in Canada, and nobody on the left in either Canada or the United States seems the least bit disturbed by it. That’s because, to be quite brutally honest, most people in the US don’t give a crap about Canada at all, much less Canadian politics. I read a Canuckian political cartoon, and I still didn’t know about that. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > In the eyes of the average leftie, there is nothing worth preserving in America’s culture or society, so they are justified in making any changes they please without regard for the principle of majority rule. Care to defend this utter bullcrap? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/70 "2008-11-03T21:28:13Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Perhaps you should put some ointment on that. We already have the [human rights tribunals](http://www.theinterim.com/2008/feb/12humanrights.html)in Canada, and nobody on the left in either Canada or the United States seems the least bit disturbed by it.\* That does little to reassure me about the left’s commitment to free speech. > > \*Of course, no one expected a Canadian Inquisition … Believe it or not, I agree with you on Canada’s hate speech laws. Speech should not be made illegal unless it incites to violence or is libel or slander. But the thing is that we are talking about two different countries with two different constitutions. Hate speech laws won’t make the grade here. And don’t cite me hate crimes laws…no one is punished solely for speech. If motive (which is ALWAYS considered in criminal cases) is determined to be that the victim of an assault or murder or intimidation attempt is of a suspect class, and the defendant is shown to have vocalized this fact, then punishment is increased. But no one is punished solely for slurs. Not legally, anyway. Social punishment has always been extra-legal, though. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/71 "2008-11-03T21:32:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Social punishment has always been extra-legal, though. Bingo. LP seems to believe that we’re in an inevitable slide toward censorship based on the fact that when he spews racist shit, people are \*mean \*to him. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/72 "2008-11-03T21:33:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And gay marriages. All heterosexuals will be required to divorce their current spouse and marry someone of the same sex. Penetration (either penile or digital)will be required by both parties and checked for the day after. your prediction has already been addressed by Obama in the form of a coal penalty in the production of electricity. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/73 "2008-11-03T21:39:21Z")
Speaking from the conservative wing of the extreme left… I am a First Amendment fundamentalist, I am instantly suspicious of any and all efforts to limit speech. I also oppose “hate crime” laws as being beyond the reasonable scope of law. When someone attacks someone, the motive is already clear, they seek to harm. That’s all it takes, far as I’m concerned, no further adjudication is necessary, nor justifiable. We can only judge actions, motivations are forever beyond our ken. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/74 "2008-11-03T21:42:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > your prediction has already been addressed by Obama in the form of a coal penalty in the production of electricity. I know you loves you some Fox News and all, but could you, maybe every once in a while, actually [try to get the story straight](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32228&type=politics) instead of swallowing all the hot, right-wingy spew they expel? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/75 "2008-11-03T21:42:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am a First Amendment fundamentalist, I am instantly suspicious of any and all efforts to limit speech. I also oppose “hate crime” laws as being beyond the reasonable scope of law. When someone attacks someone, the motive is already clear, they seek to harm. That’s all it takes, far as I’m concerned, no further adjudication is necessary, nor justifiable. I agree with this 100%. I don’t so much care \*why \*you tied that guy to the back of your truck and dragged him a couple of miles. The issue at hand is not what motivated your rage, it is your inability to control it. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/76 "2008-11-03T21:46:38Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > But the thing is that we are talking about two different countries with two different constitutions. Hate speech laws won’t make the grade here. However, when Obama gets through with the Supreme Court, the Constitution probably won’t mean much any more. Lefties consider the Constitution a “living document,” i.e. they want to ignore its cultural and historical context and the intent of the men who composed it. Let’s face it, anyone who can see a right to same-sex marriage in the Constitution clearly doesn’t care what the Constitution actually says. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/77 "2008-11-03T21:48:08Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > [They’re certainly doing it in Canada.](http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/o_stalinoid_canada_1.html) I don’t find it hard to believe that the left would love to have the same power to suppress speech here. Boy, there’s a lot of factual inaccuracy in that article. 1. Mark Steyn isn’t, and never has been, “persecuted.” 2. It’s a civil matter, akin to a libel suit. Steyn isn’t under any sort of criminal prosecution. 3. It wasn’t even Mark Steyn that was the receipient of the complaint anyway, it was the magazine he wrote for, which is spelled “Macleans,” not “McLean’s.” A McLean is a sandwich. 4. Nobody in Canada gets hanged for anything. 5. The statement that no defendant has ever won a case in a human rights tribunal is simply a lie. In fact, **Macleans won that case.** Ironically, none of this story has a direct connection to the Canadian hate speech law, which is a rarely used law - since this was not a criminal prosecution. There are legitimate criticisms of that law, but at least find a cite that can get ONE fact right, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/78 "2008-11-03T21:52:15Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > However, when Obama gets through with the Supreme Court, the Constitution probably won’t mean much any more. Lefties consider the Constitution a “living document,” i.e. they want to ignore its cultural and historical context and the intent of the men who composed it. Let’s face it, anyone who can see a right to same-sex marriage in the Constitution clearly doesn’t care what the Constitution actually says. To put it another way, may righties believe they are somehow the guardians of the cultural and historical context of the Constitution. On the left side of things, I argue that this context is anything but unanimously agreed upon and that the right cynically exploits it to achieve its own ideological goals. We care very much what the Constitution actually says, which is why we do not leave the contexual narrative in your hands. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/79 "2008-11-03T21:53:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > That’s because, to be quite brutally honest, most people in the US don’t give a crap about Canada at all, much less Canadian politics. I read a Canuckian political cartoon, and I still didn’t know about that. But I specifically said people on the left. You know, those wonderful people who are always reminding the rest of us of how deeply they care about injustice. > [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Care to defend this utter bullcrap? “The white race is the cancer of human history.” – Susan Sontag. That pretty much says it all. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903/80 "2008-11-03T21:53:22Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > However, when Obama gets through with the Supreme Court, the Constitution probably won’t mean much any more. Lefties consider the Constitution a “living document,” i.e. they want to ignore its cultural and historical context and the intent of the men who composed it. Let’s face it, anyone who can see a right to same-sex marriage in the Constitution clearly doesn’t care what the Constitution actually says. Personally, I couldn’t care less what the Founding Fathers considered applicable to the Constitution. They’re dead. And they wrote a highly imperfect document. Perhaps you’d feel more sanguine about it if it still said that people of African descent were ineligible to be citizens and, in fact, could still be slaves? Or that women couldn’t vote? The trendline on the Constitution has been upward toward more freedom for all men and women in this country. I like that. I can see where someone who thinks this country is only for white people of European descent would feel differently, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-wingnuttery-to-come/470903.md?page=5)