# Predicting Cameron's Avatar: Waterworld or Titanic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638 "2009-12-01T23:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/201 "2009-12-10T19:58:59Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > And, at this point in the eternal dance, I point out that movie theaters have added [Rear Window captioning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_Window_Captioning_System) so deaf people **can** enjoy movies in the theater, and [Descriptive listening systems](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_description) so blind people can enjoy movies in the theater as well. And, at this point, you try to change the subject. > > The simple fact is that your supposed riposte is dumb. Can you acknowledge that both blind and deaf people can enjoy a movie in a well-equipped theater? And that, by contrast, 3D movies cannot be enjoyed by the stereoblind? > Can you, at long last, admit that your argument is dumb? ok I had to lol at this, you are saying that blind people can enjoy a movie and you cant? anyone can be blind you just close your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/202 "2009-12-11T04:22:04Z")
Data point: [Cameron’s ‘Avatar’ premieres in London to cheers.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSScBL-uwenSUUj5TKBdnLkMdHCQD9CGOAH03) ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/203 "2009-12-11T05:35:15Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Data point: [Cameron’s ‘Avatar’ premieres in London to cheers.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSScBL-uwenSUUj5TKBdnLkMdHCQD9CGOAH03) I knew it. I just knew that he would prove the naysayers wrong. He did it with Titanic and he’s doing it again. That article focuses on average filmgoers. This one focuses more on critics: [“Avatar” wows early movie reviewers](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091211/review_nm/us_avatar_reviews) > [@](#): > > Director James Cameron’s long-awaited “Avatar” wowed critics at its London premiere on Thursday, with some early reviewers calling it “jaw-dropping,” “mind-blowing” and a game-changer in Hollywood for its digital effects. > > … > > “James Cameron has proven his point: He is king of the world,” raved showbiz newspaper The Hollywood Reporter. > > “As commander-in-chief of an army of visual-effects technicians, creature designers, motion-capture mavens, stunt performers, dancers, actors and music and sound magicians, he brings science-fiction movies into the 21st century with the jaw-dropping wonder that is ‘Avatar,’” it said. > > Britain’s biggest-selling tabloid, The Sun, called it “the most dazzling film of the decade. … The final battle scene is 20 minutes long and absolutely mind-blowing.” > > … > > Empire magazine gave the movie five stars out of five, calling it a “hugely rewarding experience” whose new technology “will give directors … one heck of a sandbox to play in.” > > Twitter lit up with comments from journalists leaving the tightly guarded premiere. “James Cameron is a freakin’ genius! I can’t say much but wow, I loved it,” wrote Alex Billington of the movie website [FirstShowing.net](http://FirstShowing.net). > > The London Guardian’s Mark Brown wrote on Thursday that “Avatar” was “really much, much better than expected, (it) looked amazing and the story was gripping – if cheesy in many places.” > > “The terrible film that some had been anticipating had not materialized. It was good,” Brown wrote. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/204 "2009-12-11T05:39:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > But if it bombs there will never be a trilogy. Not with an upfront, part-one budget like that. Depends on whether or not they categorize $ 250m Domestic theater as being a ‘bomb’ or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/205 "2009-12-11T05:47:47Z")
I have been holding my breath because one of my best childhood friends is the special effects supervisor for Avatar and invented some of the technology to make it work. He just posted a big sigh of relief and pride on Facebook and I e-mailed him a congratulations even though I obviously haven’t seen it yet but I will soon. I was skeptical about the idea because I am not a big sci-fi fan but it sounds like they did something groundbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/206 "2009-12-11T05:53:35Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have been holding my breath because one of my best childhood friends is the special effects supervisor for Avatar and invented some of the technology to make it work. Oh wow. One of my friends is one of the lead compositors. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/207 "2009-12-11T06:40:18Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > ok I had to lol at this, you are saying that blind people can enjoy a movie and you cant? anyone can be blind you just close your eyes. The opinion of a person who can’t capitalize and uses “lol” non-ironically means _so much_ to me. The point, which you seem to have missed, is that these two technologies have _increased_ the number of people who can enjoy movies in a theater. Prior to them, the blind and deaf were left out of enjoying the communal experience. The push for 3D is the opposite, because it _reduces_ the number of people who can enjoy a film in the theater. 3D proponents would have more credibility if they would acknowledge this fact. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/208 "2009-12-11T06:51:20Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I knew it. I just knew that he would prove the naysayers wrong. He did it with Titanic and he’s doing it again. > > That article focuses on average filmgoers. This one focuses more on critics: > > [“Avatar” wows early movie reviewers](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091211/review_nm/us_avatar_reviews) Let’s put this in perspective. There is currently a formal embargo on movie reviews for the film, which means they’re going to tolerate positive “leaks” but come down hard on naysayers who pipe in earlier than they agreed upon. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/209 "2009-12-11T07:02:43Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Let’s put this in perspective. There is currently a formal embargo on movie reviews for the film, which means they’re going to tolerate positive “leaks” but come down hard on naysayers who pipe in earlier than they agreed upon. Not anymore–the embargo has reportedly been lifted. At any rate, more positive reviews: [\*\*Hollywood Reporter: \*\*Bottom Line: A titanic entertainment – movie magic is back!](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/film-reviews/avatar-film-review-1004052868.story) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/210 "2009-12-11T07:07:51Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Not anymore–the embargo has reportedly been lifted. Not really lifted, just ignored. Those with raves can do what they want, but dollars to donuts we won’t be seeing many bad ones until a day or two before it opens. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/211 "2009-12-11T08:31:34Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Let’s put this in perspective. That seems a rather cynical perspective. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_Who\_Wasn\_t\_There](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@The\_Man\_Who\_Wasn\_t\_There](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_Who_Wasn_t_There)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/212 "2009-12-11T12:24:21Z")
Someone at _The Guardian_ has been ballsy enough to provide a moderately damning [review](http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/dec/11/avatar-james-cameron-film-review) of _Dances with Smurfs_… I mean _Avatar_. I hope he’s got good lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/213 "2009-12-11T12:33:47Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Oh wow. One of my friends is one of the lead compositors. I am sure they know each other. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/214 "2009-12-11T15:31:42Z")
Well, I hope the gushy reviews are right. I’d love to love this movie; I just have my doubts that I will, based on what I’ve seen and read so far. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/215 "2009-12-11T15:54:58Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > That seems a rather cynical perspective. Not cynical. Realistic. This is how the modern movie industry works. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/216 "2009-12-11T15:58:17Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The opinion of a person who can’t capitalize and uses “lol” non-ironically means _so much_ to me. > > The point, which you seem to have missed, is that these two technologies have _increased_ the number of people who can enjoy movies in a theater. Prior to them, the blind and deaf were left out of enjoying the communal experience. The push for 3D is the opposite, because it _reduces_ the number of people who can enjoy a film in the theater. > > 3D proponents would have more credibility if they would acknowledge this fact. You would have more credibility if you gave up this line of argument. 3D has absolutely no effect on the number of people who can enjoy a film in the theater so long as 2D screens exist in large numbers. And there is absolutely no evidence that 2D prints are being shelved in favor of 3D. Seriously - show me _one theater_ in the country that used to show 2D movies but no longer does. And don’t try that slippery slope “I can feel it coming in the future” crap. Give us some concrete evidence that 3D is actually overthrowing 2D. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/217 "2009-12-11T17:47:24Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > You would have more credibility if you gave up this line of argument. > > 3D has absolutely no effect on the number of people who can enjoy a film in the theater so long as 2D screens exist in large numbers. This thread is about _Avatar_, the film Jim Cameron wanted to open **exclusively** in 3D. I want to see this film. > [@](#): > > And there is absolutely no evidence that 2D prints are being shelved in favor of 3D. Seriously - show me _one theater_ in the country that used to show 2D movies but no longer does. And don’t try that slippery slope “I can feel it coming in the future” crap. Give us some concrete evidence that 3D is actually overthrowing 2D. OK. The Mainstreet theater, AMC’s “flagship”, the template for their future theaters, is fully capable of showing films in either 2D or 3D on all of their screens. And, since opening, they have _never_ shown a film that is available in 3D in 2D. Not once. Right now they are showing [Disney’s A Christmas Carol](http://www.movietickets.com/house_detail.asp?house_id=13150&rdate=12%2F11%2F2009). It’s down to one showing a day in their smallest theater. And every single showing has been in 3D since it opened! They have not had one 2D showing. At AMC’s prototype for future theaters, 3D has exclusively overthrown 2D. They don’t offer both. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/218 "2009-12-11T22:09:15Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > This thread is about Avatar, the film Jim Cameron wanted to open exclusively in 3D. And he… didn’t. So there goes your argument, in fact it bolsters the opposite of what you are saying. > [@gaffa](#): > > OK. The Mainstreet theater, AMC’s “flagship”, the template for their future theaters, is fully capable of showing films in either 2D or 3D on all of their screens. And, since opening, they have _never_ shown a film that is available in 3D in 2D. Not once. Right now they are showing [Disney’s A Christmas Carol](http://www.movietickets.com/house_detail.asp?house_id=13150&rdate=12%2F11%2F2009). It’s down to one showing a day in their smallest theater. And every single showing has been in 3D since it opened! They have not had one 2D showing. > > At AMC’s prototype for future theaters, 3D has exclusively overthrown 2D. They don’t offer both. Their tickets are also $25 each because they include dinner. How you could \*possibly \*interpret that to mean normal theaters are only going to show 3D movies is beyond me. But never mind, the sky is falling, no one is ever going to see 2D films again. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LunarPlexus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LunarPlexus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LunarPlexus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/219 "2009-12-11T23:00:36Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Let’s put this in perspective. I can’t get perspective because I only have one eye. Thanks, you bastard! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/220 "2009-12-11T23:51:03Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > This thread is about _Avatar_, the film Jim Cameron wanted to open **exclusively** in 3D. I want to see this film. > OK. The Mainstreet theater, AMC’s “flagship”, the template for their future theaters, is fully capable of showing films in either 2D or 3D on all of their screens. And, since opening, they have _never_ shown a film that is available in 3D in 2D. Not once. Right now they are showing [Disney’s A Christmas Carol](http://www.movietickets.com/house_detail.asp?house_id=13150&rdate=12%2F11%2F2009). It’s down to one showing a day in their smallest theater. And every single showing has been in 3D since it opened! They have not had one 2D showing. > > At AMC’s prototype for future theaters, 3D has exclusively overthrown 2D. They don’t offer both. Could you guys take it elsewhere please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=12)