# Predicting Cameron's Avatar: Waterworld or Titanic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638 "2009-12-01T23:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/261 "2009-12-16T22:47:16Z")
Can’t seem to edit it. Short spoilerfree recap: -Most of the movie is dedicated to building a wonderfully intricate and well thought out universe. The explosions and war start fairly late. -This is one of the most immersive films I’ve ever seen. Almost all the explanation is “show, don’t tell” and there’s plenty of good stuff to be shown. The 3D just seals the deal. -There’s some very obvious “WAR IS BAD” and “TREES ARE GOOD” in there, but it’s all justified and relatable. -The science wasn’t horrendously bad. I bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/262 "2009-12-17T15:45:17Z")
Popped back up a point to 84% at RT. That bodes well. Guess we’ll know for sure tomorrow! > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Almost all the explanation is “show, don’t tell” That’s a good sign. Nothing betrays poor storytelling like tediously expository dialogue or narration. > [@](#): > > There’s some very obvious “WAR IS BAD” and “TREES ARE GOOD” in there, but it’s all justified and relatable. I say, “Ick.” Even when the message I’m being hit over the head with is one I agree with, I still don’t appreciate being treated like I’m five. > [@](#): > > The science wasn’t horrendously bad. I bought it. I don’t even mind bad science so long as it’s internally consistent. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/263 "2009-12-17T17:15:43Z")
From the trailers, it looks like this is a live action version of a cartoon from the early 90’s called Exosquad. There’s episodes on Hulu. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/264 "2009-12-17T17:22:06Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > From the trailers, it looks like this is a live action version of a cartoon from the early 90’s called Exosquad. There’s episodes on Hulu. Exosquad ruled. Though Exosquad was basically Battlestar Galactica. This is a different plot because in Avatar the blue cat people are not the humans’ genetically engineered slaves. **Shot From Guns** I doubt Avatar will have much impact as to how we view the ‘noble savage’. But as cliche as it is, it’s still an ethical question. What happens if we find a world with a more primitive, yet sentient species? Though, from what I understand the N’avi are not quite as primitive as they seem at first. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/265 "2009-12-17T17:48:02Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Shot From Guns** I doubt Avatar will have much impact as to how we view the ‘noble savage’. I don’t think it’s going to “impact […] how we view the ‘noble savage,’” I’m just worried it’s going to further reinforce those patronizing stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/266 "2009-12-17T17:52:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I don’t think it’s going to “impact […] how we view the ‘noble savage,’” I’m just worried it’s going to further reinforce those patronizing stereotypes. That’s a belief in an impact. Reinforcement is impact. I think it’s neither here nor there really, it’s just a trope. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/267 "2009-12-17T18:01:18Z")
Yeah, poorly phrased on my part. What I’m saying is, I think the reinforcement is \*incidental \*to what Cameron is actually trying to do, as opposed to being one of the messages he’s \*trying \*to get across. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/268 "2009-12-17T18:20:03Z")
I’m still trying to wrap my head around this. Ever since Titanic came out, I’ve had it and James Cameron inextricably linked in my mind. I’d never even _heard_ of him before then. When I heard about Avatar, I assumed it would be a sci-fi movie in the same way Twilight is a vampire movie. And now I find out he did Terminator and Alien? So he maybe actually possibly knows what he’s doing when it comes to sci-fi action? I’m not quite ready to forgive him for punching The Last Airbender in the face and taking half its title, but maybe I’ll wind up seeing it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/269 "2009-12-17T18:27:41Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’m still trying to wrap my head around this. > > Ever since Titanic came out, I’ve had it and James Cameron inextricably linked in my mind. I’d never even _heard_ of him before then. When I heard about Avatar, I assumed it would be a sci-fi movie in the same way Twilight is a vampire movie. > > And now I find out he did Terminator and Alien? So he maybe actually possibly knows what he’s doing when it comes to sci-fi action? > > I’m not quite ready to forgive him for punching The Last Airbender in the face and taking half its title, but maybe I’ll wind up seeing it anyway. Heh, I’ll never forgive the Last Airbender for stealing it from New Agers, or New Agers for stealing it from Hinuds. 😉 Anyway, it refers to the function of the primary technology in the film. It’s descriptive. But yea, James Cameron knows Sci Fi, though he didn’t direct Alien, he directed Aliens. Alien was directed by Ridley Scott. Aliens was the best of the franchise IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/270 "2009-12-17T18:35:51Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Heh, I’ll never forgive the Last Airbender for stealing it from New Agers, or New Agers for stealing it from Hinuds. A quick wiki scan makes it look like \*The Last Airbender \*borrowed it from the Hindus, rather than by way of the New Agers. Otherwise, what’s the New Age idea of an avatar? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/271 "2009-12-17T20:17:39Z")
I also give Cameron props for directing _True Lies_ and _The Abyss_, both of which are great action films IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/272 "2009-12-17T20:25:05Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A quick wiki scan makes it look like \*The Last Airbender \*borrowed it from the Hindus, rather than by way of the New Agers. Otherwise, what’s the New Age idea of an avatar? Well the only reason you even know the word is because of the New Agers popularizing it. Likely the same is true for the writers of Avatar unless they are actually Indian. I was making a joke about the idea that someone has a proprietary link to the word. The New Age version is the same as every other version, it’s a God made flesh. Basically God’s proxy on Earth. Like Jesus. In the movie Avatar it is the representative of humanity to the N’avi. I haven’t seen The Last Airbender, but from what I am told it gets into a whole metaphysical study of the ideas of power and enlightenment and all that kind of stuff. Hehe, that show actually has a trope that I can’t stand, that every super-powered character must be a messiah of some sort. Though I have recently heard some descriptions that make me think I might actually watch it when my daughter is old enough to like it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/273 "2009-12-17T20:43:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I also give Cameron props for directing _True Lies_ and _The Abyss_, both of which are great action films IMHO. I half agree. I actually like every Cameron film (even Titanic!) except for True Lies. Maybe it’s that I only now just saw it for the first time a few weeks ago…but it bored me. Granted, I’m not a huge fan of silly pure-action movies at all, but it seemed like the least “Cameron” of his films. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/274 "2009-12-17T20:44:11Z")
I’ve never not enjoyed a Cameron film. I doubt tomorrow will be different. My only regret is that I don’t think I’ll find a way to smoke some pot before going in. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/275 "2009-12-17T21:05:09Z")
I think this will be a huge hit possibly making $500 million in the US and even dethroning Titanic from its no. 1 spot (without adjusting for inflation). After reading early reviews my expectations are sky high. Not for the movie as a whole; I will be satisfied if it’s merely decent. However I am expecting the greatest visual experience of any movie I have seen. Let’s see if it delivers. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/276 "2009-12-17T21:49:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I also give Cameron props for directing _True Lies_ and _The Abyss_, both of which are great action films IMHO. I see \*The Abyss \*simultaneously as a good and a bad sign. A bad sign, because if you’ve seen the director’s cut, you know how OH MY GOD HEAVY-HANDED the message at the end was. But a good sign, because even with the original ending restored, it’s still an enjoyable film. > [@mswas](#): > > Well the only reason you even know the word is because of the New Agers popularizing it. Speak for yourself–I’ve actually taken courses where we study things like the Bhagavad Gita. 😃 (There was a course in Comparative Religion I took in high school that addressed it, as well as at least one college course, specifically Eastern Philosophy. I can also pronounce Avalokiteśvara, because I’m awesome like that.) The word “avatar” is also common nowadays in video games and online communities, where it’s used to refer to a virtual visual representation of a person. That could be the character you play in a game, the image that’s associated with your account on a forum, or anything similar. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/277 "2009-12-17T21:54:03Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I see \*The Abyss \*simultaneously as a good and a bad sign. A bad sign, because if you’ve seen the director’s cut, you know how OH MY GOD HEAVY-HANDED the message at the end was. But a good sign, because even with the original ending restored, it’s still an enjoyable film. > > Speak for yourself–I’ve actually taken courses where we study things like the Bhagavad Gita. 😃 (There was a course in Comparative Religion I took in high school that addressed it, as well as at least one college course, specifically Eastern Philosophy. I can also pronounce Avalokiteśvara, because I’m awesome like that.) The word “avatar” is also common nowadays in video games and online communities, where it’s used to refer to a virtual visual representation of a person. That could be the character you play in a game, the image that’s associated with your account on a forum, or anything similar. Right, and where do you think those people heard it from? They heard it because the Beatles hung out with Ravi Shankar long before you took your comparative religion class. 😉 But if you learned the word in comparative religion class, I concede that it’s not where you came up with it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/278 "2009-12-17T21:56:20Z")
Looks like a video game. Don’t like watching somebody else playing video games. Note to Cameron and Lucas: CGI still isn’t that good at creating realistic people. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/279 "2009-12-17T22:12:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right, and where do you think those people heard it from? They heard it because the Beatles hung out with Ravi Shankar long before you took your comparative religion class. You have no way of knowing that they weren’t going back to the original sources, though. Just because something popularized a certain word doesn’t mean that it’s the only way people hear of it, or that it doesn’t then direct people back to that source. If that were the case, you could argue that I learned about avatars not from the Bhagavad Gita but from my professor, since he was the one who required the book. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/280 "2009-12-17T23:34:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Looks like a video game. Don’t like watching somebody else playing video games. > > Note to Cameron and Lucas: CGI still isn’t that good at creating realistic people. Perhaps on the trailers that’s true. But if you go to see the film, I am confident you will change your mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=15)