# Predicting Cameron's Avatar: Waterworld or Titanic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638 "2009-12-01T23:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/321 "2009-12-29T05:59:14Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I saw it on Sunday. Gorgeous! I wonder whether this may trigger the beginnings of 3DTV adoption at home? I know I’d like to get a big-screen TV to see it on. Is there a standard for 3DTV yet? > > I’ll be seeing it again. Ignoring the theatrics, I want a bike. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/322 "2009-12-29T06:17:50Z")
Actually Avatar could be one of the few movies which do make make its money back on theatrical revenue alone. Say it makes 400million in the US and 800 million in the rest of the world and say the studio gets on average 50% of the take, that’s 600 million. The actual formula is more complicated of course and will vary from country to country will change from early weeks to later weeks but it’s quite possible that Avatar will make its money back from the boxoffice. When you factor in DVD/blu ray, TV rights, the video game, merchandise, books etc. it’s going to make a massive profit. ``` Actually I am surprised anyone thought the opposite especially after the positive reviews started coming in. This movie had a massive amount of hype and promised a unique visual experience. Cameron is a proven success at the boxoffice. It could have flopped if it was an utter mess but once the good reviews came in it was always likely to be a success. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/323 "2009-12-29T06:29:22Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > "Okay, he managed to impress thems what ignore the 3d-crap at home. Whoop-di-doo. > > “In real life I work at providing the best picture for my customers. In reality, I’m trying to connect the crap the others are providing. We ignore “official” descriptions because they only describe worlds from dozens of years before.” Can someone translate? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/324 "2009-12-29T06:40:13Z")
The weekend [actuals](http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2009&wknd=52&p=.htm)are up and Avatar made 75.6 million in the US which beats The Dark Knight’s second weekend total of 75.2 by a whisker making it the second weekend record holder. The third weekend record is 44 million for Spiderman and that is the next thing to watch out for. I am also interested in how much 3-D boxoffice Avatar has pulled in so far. I am sure it will be both a US and global record but I don’t have actual numbers. In any event this will give a massive push to the format. I googled the Hobbit and 3D and I found [this](http://screenrant.com/the-hobbit-3d-cast-rumors-guillermo-del-toro-ross-23583/), from Del Toro (the bolding is mine): > [@](#): > > As a co-writer and director of this film (who works with the design teams, costume teams, creature teams, VFX teams every day of the week), let me be very clear one more time: we are not talking about 3D, we are NOT writing the screenplay for 3D right now- we are hiring my DoP Guillermo Navarro to shoot the film and we are not discussing 3D with him either or with WETA digital or WB or anyone else. That should be a little less sidestepping, I hope. > > ``` > **If after AVATAR the market may change and demands are put upon us, etc that is in the future.** But if such things happen and we start discussing 3D down the line, I’ll let it be know here at TORN because that’s the proper way of doing things. But make no mistake- I’ve been living in NZ for almost a year now and we have not been discussing 3D. When we do, I’ll make sure your source finds out. Thank You, Guillermo.” > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/325 "2009-12-29T09:10:42Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Can someone translate? I don’t know, something about a bike too?? I think **dropzone** has had a little too much spiked eggnog, or some really good pot. [QUOTE=Lantern] I am also interested in how much 3-D boxoffice Avatar has pulled in so far. [/QUOTE] Can’t help you with the 3D totals, but here’s a bit about the IMAX showings: > [@](#): > > [James Cameron’s Avatar Continues To Break IMAX Box Office Records](http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/28/james-camerons-avatar-continues-to-break-imax-box-office-records/) > > Twentieth Century Fox today announced that James Cameron’s Avatar continued its record-breaking box office run during its second weekend, grossing approximately $8.8 million from 179 IMAX(R) theatres domestically from December 25 through December 27, 2009, registering approximately 12% of the film’s total domestic gross of $75.6 million on less than 3% of the screens. IMAX theatres continued to operate at virtually full capacity all weekend, driving the domestic IMAX box office to date to approximately $28 million. > > The IMAX international release posted an estimated total of approximately $3.6 million from 70 IMAX screens during the weekend, with the IMAX network in Poland and Japan posting record openings. The film is still scheduled to open on 11 IMAX screens in China and one in Argentina in the coming weeks. The worldwide IMAX box office total is more than $39 million as of the end of day Sunday, December 27, 2009. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/326 "2009-12-30T07:07:37Z")
Avatar makes 19 [million](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?sortdate=2009-12-28&p=.htm)in the US on Monday. This is a sensational number which suggests that Avatar may have jumped from a typical blockbuster to a boxoffice sensation like The Dark Knight or Titanic. To put this number in perspective it’s probably the most any film has ever made in the US on a non-holiday weekday at this point in its run (i.e after the second weekend). It means that Avatar has made 232 by day 11 which is the same that Return of the King had made by day 13, some years back. ROTK went on to make 377 in the US so Avatar is likely to blow past that. ROTK is second on the [worldwide](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/)list at 1.1 billion and Avatar will likely beat that as well(Titanic is no.1 at 1.8 billion). I had a look at IMDB to see if there was any significant drop in its rating as more fans entered their vote but it’s going strong at 8.8 which suggests that word of mouth is still great. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/327 "2009-12-30T08:37:25Z")
Yeah, it looks like it will hold strong all week and have a very good 3rd weekend. I think it is appealing to a much wider audience than some people expected, and it is getting a fair amount of repeat business. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/328 "2009-12-30T10:07:21Z")
We went to see It’s Complicated (_barf_) last night and all the 2D and 3D **Avatar** showings, playing in multiple theaters, were sold out. The place was absolutely packed and the lines for Sherlock were long too. We also went to see, not by choice\*, Alvin and the Stupid Squeakqual (_double barf_) and that was packed too. We mistimed and got there too late for the IC showing we intended, and Alvin was the only thing playing that was starting right then, was short, and would get out in time for us to catch the later IC. We thought, well, it’s that or sit in the lobby for 2 hours or just go home. We should have gone home. All in all, it was a lousy night at the movies. Tomorrow we’ll make up for it by seeing 2 good movies, A Serious Man and A Simple Man. ---
**Author:** ![Lethal\_Babydoll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Lethal\_Babydoll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lethal_Babydoll)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/329 "2009-12-30T12:59:55Z")
I work at a newspaper, which if you know anything about journalists, is filled with a bunch of opinionated folks, half of which go out of their way to be cranky. i sit beside our film blogger so i’m constantly hearing conversations when the many movie buffs in the newsroom stop by his desk and talk about films they’ve seen. no one has said they disliked **Avatar**. and to repeat, these cranks love to complain and will complain about things that are actually good for them. so that’s a secret to its success. i was disappointed. my younger brother cut class so we could catch the first screening of **Terminator** when it originally opened and I have seen all the Cameron movies on opening weekends since and i’m a big fan of his. I scoffed at all the early reviews that the story was real weak. “It couldn’t be that weak,” I thought. People said the same thing about the **Titanic** plot and that was dead wrong in my view. That story took you everywhere on that boat in a narrative way and had plenty of tension for a story you knew the ending to. But … early knocks were right. \*\*Avatar \*\*has a crippling weak story. i have no urge to ever see it again and i have seen the other Cameron films 10 times and more (except True Lies, only about 5). That’s one Pulitzer Prize winner’s opinion (I like to mention my one great professional achievement whenever possible). ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/330 "2009-12-30T15:01:12Z")
I’m in Afghanistan right now and won’t be home till mid-Feb. This son-of-a-bitch better still be in theaters in 3-D or I’ll be disappointed… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/331 "2009-12-30T16:14:17Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Avatar makes 19 [million](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?sortdate=2009-12-28&p=.htm)in the US on Monday. This is a sensational number which suggests that Avatar may have jumped from a typical blockbuster to a boxoffice sensation like The Dark Knight or Titanic. > > To put this number in perspective it’s probably the most any film has ever made in the US on a non-holiday weekday at this point in its run (i.e after the second weekend). It means that Avatar has made 232 by day 11 which is the same that Return of the King had made by day 13, some years back.t. It’s riding a 2 week holiday vacation block so it’s tough to compare it to non-vacation releases. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/332 "2009-12-30T16:58:59Z")
I wonder how Hollywood will react when it realizes that it can make megablockbusters that aren’t sequels or remakes, aren’t based on books, comics or TV series, and have no major stars. This might be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/333 "2009-12-30T18:06:57Z")
**Titanic** was a megablockbuster that wasn’t a sequel, remake, based on a book, comic or TV series, and had no major stars (Titanic made Leo and Kate stars, until then they were only known by film buffs and some TV watchers). **Cubsfan** , it will. Academy Award nominations are announced February 2. It’s not certain to get a Best Picture nomination, but I think it will, especially since there are 10 nominees this time. It’ll probably get a few other nominations too. I’m thinking it’ll get nominations for Picture, Visual Effects, Art Direction, Editing, and both Sound awards (Editing and Mixing). Possible but doubtful nominations for Score, Cinematography, Director and script. Whatever it gets, it’ll still be in the theaters through March 7 when the Oscars are given out, and a little beyond. There’s nothing coming out that would replace it. Then again, I suppose it depends on where you’ll be going back to, if there are decent theaters nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/334 "2009-12-30T18:09:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s riding a 2 week holiday vacation block so it’s tough to compare it to non-vacation releases. He’s comparing it to **Return of the King** , which was released in the same period. Who cares about non-vacation releases? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/335 "2009-12-30T18:36:18Z")
Welp, I saw Avatar on Christmas Eve, and it lived up perfectly to my expectations: visually stunning with a predictable plot and cardboard characters. At least they didn’t lean too heavily on the Noble Savage trope: The Navi have a connection to the land, but oh hey, this one is \*actually \*a \*literal \*connection. And there weren’t too many wtf idiot plot moments, either. Some of the only things that really bothered me, besides the incredibly unimaginative Unobtainium and Pandora: [spoiler]You can fire arrows/spears through the windows of the human aircraft when they’re at the climactic fight scene, but not when you’re trying to defend the Home Tree? “Hey guys, we’re fighting people with fucking POISON-TIPPED WEAPONS. Let’s NOT WEAR ANY SLEEVES.”[/spoiler] > [@Equipoise](#): > > We mistimed and got there too late for the IC showing we intended, and Alvin was the only thing playing that was starting right then, was short, and would get out in time for us to catch the later IC. Ugh, how did that possibly seem like it was going to end well? “Hrm, it looks like they’re all out of hamburgers. They do have this pile of rotting meat in the back dumpster, though, so I guess we could have that.” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/336 "2009-12-30T19:09:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > [spoiler]You can fire arrows/spears through the windows of the human aircraft when they’re at the climactic fight scene, but not when you’re trying to defend the Home Tree? > > “Hey guys, we’re fighting people with fucking POISON-TIPPED WEAPONS. Let’s NOT WEAR ANY SLEEVES.”[/spoiler] Someone already said this in another thread, but the arrows were more effective later because they were being launched at higher velocities, from the backs of those flying creatures. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/337 "2009-12-30T19:15:44Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I still think there is an outside chance of Avatar continuing very strongly in January and February and really challenging The Dark Knight and even Titanic at the top of the all-time US boxoffice. As far as challenging Titanic, isn’t it inevitable due to the rise in movie ticket prices? 1997 Titanic: $6.00 2009 Avatar: $9.50 (or $13.50 3D or $15 for IMAX) (Hawaii prices) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/338 "2009-12-30T19:24:48Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > As far as challenging Titanic, isn’t it inevitable due to the rise in movie ticket prices? Maybe. Even raised ticket-prices may not be enough to combat how bloody huge Titanic was. It was in theaters for nearly a full-year. But if any movie is poised to come close, it’d be Avatar. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/339 "2009-12-30T19:40:54Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Someone already said this in another thread, but the arrows were more effective later because they were being launched at higher velocities, from the backs of those flying creatures. The point is, they could have used the same delivery system earlier and saved themselves a hell of a lot of trouble. It’s deliberately forgetting about some capability in order to drive the plot, which is lazy writing. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638/340 "2009-12-30T19:44:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The point is, they could have used the same delivery system earlier and saved themselves a hell of a lot of trouble. It’s deliberately forgetting about some capability in order to drive the plot, which is lazy writing. Few things: Perhaps they didn’t know? They also had no time to prepare and lacked the man-power, by a magnitude of what, 1,700, that took place during the final battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predicting-camerons-avatar-waterworld-or-titanic/519638.md?page=18)