Prediction: North Korea will declare war on Trump personally and his personal property

[asahi]

@madsircool

There are other ways to topple the Kim’s than war. We can try brokering a deal with China as part of a peace treaty that would officially end the Korean War. Reunify Korea under the S Koreans. Withdraw US forces from the Penninsula. Negotiate a free trade zone that will benefit the Chinese.

Gee, it’s just that easy. Why hasn’t anyone else thought of this?:rolleyes:

@madsircool

The first step might be encouraging a coup by the military to overthrow Kim. As part of negotiations with the new government offer blanket amnesty in exchange for a reintegration of the North.

What makes you think that the military would consider overthrowing Kim? For what? What’s their reward? Why would they want to reintegrate with the North? Why would they trust an agreement even partially brokered by the United States, which it has seen as a hostile threat for generations (as even quite a few South Koreans see it as well)?

[Shodan]

@asahi

There’s also a broader context that needs to be addressed and understood by people who want to point the finger squarely at Kim’s regime. There was an energy agreement reached with the Clinton administration in the 1990s…

You mean the energy agreement that the North Koreans broke? How is it the fault of the Clinton administration that the NKs lied?

There was also ‘axis of evil’, the invasion and overthrow of Saddam Hussein’s regime.

I think you have cause and effect turned around - North Korea doesn’t do horrible things because they were labeled as part of the axis of evil; they were labeled as part of the axis because they do horrible things.

At that same time, the Bush administration began banging on the UN table for economic sanctions against North Korea – this was well before the first nuke test in 2006.

Again, I think you have the timeline wrong - economic sanctions against NK predate Bush by quite a bit.

We can rightly and fairly criticize the North Korean regime for its barbaric treatment of people, but the regime itself could be forgiven for assuming that it is being threatened by aggressive American foreign policy dating back years.

North Korea complaining that they feel threatened by the West is like the Mafia complaining that the police have it in for them.

Regards,
Shodan

[asahi]

@Shodan

You mean the energy agreement that the North Koreans broke? How is it the fault of the Clinton administration that the NKs lied?

The truth is a little more complicated than that. The United States never fully implemented its end of the agreement in no small part because congress changed hands in 1994 and didn’t have the funding to develop the fuel oil. Whether Kim Jong Il would have broken the agreement anyway is a matter of fair debate – he might well have and never seemed committed to the agreement. But neither were Republican war hawks, whose influence increased after 1994. We can thank the Bush administration for singling out North Korea as part of the axis of evil and giving the Kim regime a perfect illustration of what they could expect to happen to them if they failed to obtain more defensive capabilities (see Iraq).

@Shodan

I think you have cause and effect turned around - North Korea doesn’t do horrible things because they were labeled as part of the axis of evil; they were labeled as part of the axis because they do horrible things.

A lot of countries do horrible things. The question is, would we want a war with this country that does horrible things, knowing that they have the capability to make it really, really messy?

[Chimera]

With the latest stuff, I wouldn’t be surprised if North Korea did try to act directly against Trump and his properties.

[ElvisL1ves]

Does he have a golf course on Guam?

[Snowboarder_Bo]

North Korea now says that Donald Trump has declared war on their country and they’ve noted this to the UN.

North Korea’s top diplomat said Monday that President Donald Trump’s tweet that leader Kim Jong Un “won’t be around much longer” was a declaration of war against his country by the United States.

Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho told reporters that what he called Trump’s “declaration of war” gives North Korea “every right” under the U.N. Charter to take countermeasures, “including the right to shoot down the United States strategic bombers even they’re not yet inside the airspace border of our country.”

The foreign minister opened his brief remarks in Korean by saying that over the last few days, the U.N. and the international community have clearly wished “that the war of words between the DPRK and the United States will not turn into real action.”

DPRK refers to the North’s official name, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

“However, that weekend, Trump claimed that our leadership wouldn’t be around much longer, and … he declared the war on our country,” Ri said.
North Korea’s foreign minister said Monday that President Trump’s latest statements are “a declaration of war” against his country, and that “all options” are on the table. (Sept. 25)

“Given the fact that this comes from someone who is currently holding the seat of (the) United States presidency, this is clearly a declaration of war,” the foreign minister said.

He said all U.N. members and the world “should clearly remember that it was the U.S. who first declared war on our country.”

Ri then said North Korea now has the right to retaliate against U.S. bombers.

And he ended his brief remarks by saying: “The question of who won’t be around much longer will be answered then.”

[CurtC]

@HurricaneDitka

Your optimistic confidence in what North Korea “knows” is certainly inspiring. I wish I could share it.

NK has to know that a war that involves bombs and artillery would not end well for them, and the Kim regime would be over.

And that’s the only thing he cares about - that his regime continue. His internal support comes from standing up to the West, while he knows that an actual war would end it. He’s walking that fine line between those two.

Given his motivation, I think Kim’s actions so far are somewhat the rational thing to do (looking at it from his POV). It’s Trump that’s the loose cannon here. I’m not sure what the solution is, but Trump isn’t helping things.

[Morgenstern]

Three reasons why NK will fire in anger at the US, US territories or assets and NOT Trump’s assets.

1. Twitter
2. Twitter
3. Twitter

Trump tweets; “Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won’t be around much longer!”

NK responds that such a tweet is a declaration of war, and under international law they can now shoot down US assets (bombers) whether or not over NK.

This mothertrucker tweeted us into another war.

[XT]

@Snowboarder_Bo

North Korea now says that Donald Trump has declared war on their country and they’ve noted this to the UN.

Yeah, I saw that on CNN earlier. Someone should tell that guy to step out of the government building he’s in and look around. If the building is in fact still there, then war hasn’t actually been declared.

[HurricaneDitka]

@CurtC

NK has to know that a war that involves bombs and artillery would not end well for them, and the Kim regime would be over.

And that’s the only thing he cares about - that his regime continue. His internal support comes from standing up to the West, while he knows that an actual war would end it.

I think someone could have argued the same about the Taliban or Saddam before we ended up in a war with them. Humans are stubborn, and self-deluded. The North Koreans have had some overtly hostile acts (shelling, sinking, kidnapping, assassination attempts, etc), things that could have easily sparked a war. If the “knew” it would be the end of their regime, they haven’t been going to great pains to avoid that outcome. How does your analysis account for those actions? Did they “know” sinking a South Korean ship, for example, wouldn’t trigger a war?

@CurtC

… It’s Trump that’s the loose cannon here. I’m not sure what the solution is, but Trump isn’t helping things.

I can concede that Trump is less of a statesman than past presidents, but I don’t think “[he is] the loose cannon here” is at all accurate. The North Koreans fucking sank an ROKS corvette not many years ago. Shit like that starts wars, frequently. That is what being a “loose cannon” looks like.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Morgenstern

…This mothertrucker tweeted us into another war.

Get a grip, no one’s in a war yet.

[Morgenstern]

@HurricaneDitka

Get a grip, no one’s in a war yet.

And you trust Trump’s awesome diplomatic skillset to steer us out of the corner he’s painting us into?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Morgenstern

And you trust Trump’s awesome diplomatic skillset to steer us out of the corner he’s painting us into?

I don’t have a crystal ball and I don’t know how it’s all going to turn out. The odds of us ending up in a no-shit shooting war with the Norks are higher now than they have been in the past, but still not better than an outside chance, I think. I would prefer that someone like Mitt Romney or Ted Cruz were in charge instead of Trump (or Clinton). That’s the elevator-pitch version of my views on the matter.

That being said, your “tweeted us into another war” post was just silly hyperbole. Are you capable of acknowledging that?

[XT]

@Morgenstern

And you trust Trump’s awesome diplomatic skillset to steer us out of the corner he’s painting us into?

What corner do you see the US having been painted into?? Seriously, if anyone has painted themselves into a corner here it’s the NK’s and their fearless leader.

[Morgenstern]

According th NK we’re at war with them. At least that’s the reason they are using to shoot down our assets flying close to their borders.

[XT]

@Morgenstern

According th NK we’re at war with them. At least that’s the reason they are using to shoot down our assets flying close to their borders.

Have they actually shot anything down? If we are at war, have they started shelling into the DMZ or Seoul? Are they massing for a push across the DMZ? Have they put their air force on high alert, getting a full CAP up and putting their fleet (such as it is) to sea? I’m guessing the answer to all of this is, no, as I think we’d have heard about it if this were the case.

Basically, was the spokesman for North Korea’s lips moving? If so, this is one of those tells that says he or she is lying.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Morgenstern

According th NK we’re at war with them. At least that’s the reason they are using to shoot down our assets flying close to their borders.

North Korea did NOT say ‘we are going to shoot down US bombers near our borders.’ They said ‘we reserve the right to shoot down US bombers near our borders.’ It’s a not-particularly-subtle difference. Do you see it?

Here is the exact quote, as provided by CNN:

Since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make all self-defensive counter measures, including the right to shoot down the United States strategic bombers at any time even when they are not yet inside the aerospace border of our country.

[Morgenstern]

@XT

What corner do you see the US having been painted into?? Seriously, if anyone has painted themselves into a corner here it’s the NK’s and their fearless leader.

I’m not saying NK is right. I’m saying the moron in chief is going to fuck this up faster than a drunk 15 year-old fucks up the new Ferrari he just stole. Trump is too stupid to keep his mouth shut, and that thoughtless stupidity will end matter unacceptably.

[Morgenstern]

@HurricaneDitka

North Korea did NOT say ‘we are going to shoot down US bombers near our borders.’ They said ‘we reserve the right to shoot down US bombers near our borders.’ It’s a not-particularly-subtle difference. Do you see it?

Here is the exact quote, as provided by CNN:

Readread the first few words from your quote.
“Since the United States declared war on our country…”

Scary really. They are justifying their position with international law now.

[madsircool]

@Morgenstern

Readread the first few words from your quote.
“Since the United States declared war on our country…”

Scary really. They are justifying their position with international law now.

Technically we have been at war with them since 1953. Nothing to see here.