# Prefer Trump or Pence as president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653 "2017-01-20T18:22:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/21 "2017-01-21T02:48:56Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But what’s the practical downside of that? > > If Trump is incompetent, then eventually everyone will just start to ignore him and go on with regular governance. China will get pissed off for a while, then decide that it’s not worth going to war when they can just wait four years and have everything come back around to sanity again. The EU and the UN will do likewise. The legislature will simply ignore Trump’s policies, and he’ll veto their policies, except for the ones they can push through with a super majority. > > Trump will install more centralist Supreme Court Justices than Pence would. He will have a lesser hard-on for dismantling ACA and Planned Parenthood than Pence would. He will be far less inclined to establish [del]Sharia[/del] Halakhic law than Pence would. > > Trump will be an ass and a blight on our history, but his lasting effect will be minimal. Pence could actually point the country in a new (and worse) direction for the rest of time. Trump will serve as evidence that we need to do a better job electing our presidents. Pence, backed by a Republican congress, can start us on the path to theocracy. You are ignoring how Trump works. When he is ignored, he doesn’t just stop. He escalates. He threatens. This is a guy who said nukes weren’t off the table, and wants us to rev up our nuclear program in response to Russia’s. Trump is vindictive. If you become his enemy, he does what he can to make you pay. If he feels he’s being ignored by the international community, I fully expect him to use the might and power of the United States to make them listen. That is how he “makes deals.” Sure, we can hope that every World Leader will be able to pretend to listen while still ultimately ignoring him, but there’s a big chance they won’t. Yes, Trump is a bit less likely to put a conservative on the Supreme Court, but not because he’s against conservatism. He could just as easily put in someone else who is incompetent, which isn’t good, either. As for laws, yeah, he’s a little less likely to bend over. But look at what he did with all his executive departments. He appointed people who want to dismantle them. That’s conservatism. Sure seems he’s rolling over. So you get a slightly less conservative President, but a bigger chance that horrible things happen. Pence is better. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/22 "2017-01-21T03:55:23Z")
Hard to say. Pence is monstrous, but he is probably going to be pulling strings behind the scenes, while Trump circles around and around with his pants down, crapping on pictures of his enemies. Perhaps Pence or someone can stop him from nuking N. Korea? I dunno. I loathe both of them. Seems Pence is winning here, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/23 "2017-01-21T09:04:02Z")
_grits teeth_ Mike Pence. He would be a bad president, but bad within normal parameters. Donald Trump presents a [higher risk of _catastrophically_ bad outcomes](http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-is-the-tail-risk-candidate-2016-5), and nothing I imagine Pence doing is that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/24 "2017-01-21T12:15:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You are ignoring how Trump works. When he is ignored, he doesn’t just stop. He escalates. He threatens. This is a guy who said nukes weren’t off the table, and wants us to rev up our nuclear program in response to Russia’s. Trump is vindictive. If you become his enemy, he does what he can to make you pay. Presidential powers: 1. Veto 2. Pardon people 3. Nuke Russia Now, granted, #3 is a biggy. But realistically we’re just going to see #1 and #2 and neither really lets the President do anything. A President can have power, by being able to sell the legislature on a particular vision. But that’s not something he has by default. If they aren’t sold, he’s stuck sitting in an office vetoing everything, and that’s just not a power that you really need to fear. Despite all fear mongering, the Presidential office is almost a powerless role. You only really need to fear the guy who can sell our college-educated Legislature on policy. That’s outside of Trump’s talents. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/25 "2017-01-21T13:19:04Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Pence. When you compare his reaction to the _Hamilton_ incident with Trump’s, it’s clear who the grown-up is. I hate everything Pence stands for, but I cannot take four years of Trump’s asinine tweets and tiny hands on the nuclear button. Speaking of _Hamilton_–from “The Election of 1800” > [@](#): > > [HAMILTON] > I have never agreed with Jefferson once > > We have fought on like seventy-five diff’rent fronts > > But when all is said and all is done > Jefferson has beliefs. Burr has none I disagree with Pence on almost everything but he’s less likely to get us blown up. What a choice… ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/26 "2017-01-21T13:22:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Despite all fear mongering, the Presidential office is almost a powerless role. Um, what? :dubious: The President is in charge of numerous federal departments, with millions of employees, who oversee everything from federal law enforcement, to immigration policy, to energy policy, to international diplomacy, to health care policy, to homeland security, etc. That’s a huge amount of power, even if he can’t create new laws or set the budget. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/27 "2017-01-21T21:58:42Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Um, what? :dubious: The President is in charge of numerous federal departments, with millions of employees, who oversee everything from federal law enforcement, to immigration policy, to energy policy, to international diplomacy, to health care policy, to homeland security, etc. That’s a huge amount of power, even if he can’t create new laws or set the budget. Not if they all ignore him, because he’s an idiot. As I said, once everyone realizes that they’ve been had, they’ll have to choose whether to actually drive things into ruin, or just continue doing their job to the best extent, either ignoring or selectively modifying anything that came from Trump into something reasonable. You only have to tough it out for four years, and there’s no reason not to do that once you’ve realized that everyone else is coming to that conclusion as well. “Lame duck President” is a term for a reason. If the state of being was impossible, we wouldn’t have a phrase for it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/28 "2017-01-21T23:01:50Z")
Pence clearly. Pence won’t trip over his ego and screw the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Olfatbut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a183cd/32.png) [@Olfatbut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olfatbut)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/29 "2017-01-22T05:37:23Z")
Trump over Pence for me. Not an obvious choice but I think there are enough checks in place to precent an actual nuclear whoopsie by tweet. “Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families,” That’s totally at odds with the corporatists in congress. The best way out of this mess is if the executive and legislative branches lock horns and quibble for 2 years. With Pence at the helm, everything is fast-tracked. So I’ll take my chances with the mostly-unknown quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/30 "2017-01-22T05:39:59Z")
[None of the Above.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/31 "2017-01-22T05:47:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > _grits teeth_ Mike Pence. He would be a bad president, but bad within normal parameters. Donald Trump presents a [higher risk of _catastrophically_ bad outcomes](http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-is-the-tail-risk-candidate-2016-5), and nothing I imagine Pence doing is that bad. This is my thinking as well. I think PJ O’Rourke said he was supporting Clinton because, even though he thought she was wrong about everything, she was wrong “within normal parameters.” I don’t share Pence’s politics, but I don’t think he’s as batshit insane as Trump. ---
**Author:** ![CatandMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@CatandMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatandMouse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/32 "2017-01-22T06:08:28Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > I’m kinda sad that asteroid missed us a few days ago. It’s these kind of comments that have kept me posting here. lol (That cracked me up) I went with Pence, but I’d rather drink bleach. Isn’t Pence already in charge of domestic and foreign policy? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/33 "2017-01-22T11:00:12Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > I’m kinda sad that asteroid missed us a few days ago. I’m not! I don’t want to die because you guys elected the political equivalent of an inflatable sex doll! ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/34 "2017-01-22T14:03:48Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > _grits teeth_ Mike Pence. He would be a bad president, but bad within normal parameters. Donald Trump presents a [higher risk of _catastrophically_ bad outcomes](http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-is-the-tail-risk-candidate-2016-5), and nothing I imagine Pence doing is that bad. +1. Also, Pences damage potential is mostly national. Trumphs catastrophe potential is global. Damage to the US social or economic fabric will also be easier to repair the more the rest of the west is ticking along. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/35 "2017-01-22T23:09:01Z")
Neither. But if hard put to it, I’d have to go with Pence. Trump doesn’t belong within a hundred miles of the White House, and never will. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/36 "2017-01-23T00:18:43Z")
I went with Trump because he’ll just flail around for 4 years on Twitter; Pence could actually be effective at destroying the country. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/37 "2017-01-23T01:05:38Z")
Let Trump nominate one of his golfing buddies to SCOTUS, _then_ dump him for Pence. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/38 "2017-01-23T01:25:36Z")
I don’t like Pence at all but I still chose him because he hasn’t proven himself to be a habitual liar who threatens people who dare to speak against him. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/39 "2017-01-24T03:40:53Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > +1. Also, Pences damage potential is mostly national. Trumphs catastrophe potential is global. Damage to the US social or economic fabric will also be easier to repair the more the rest of the west is ticking along. This ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/40 "2017-01-24T04:51:01Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > +1. Also, Pences damage potential is mostly national. Trumphs catastrophe potential is global. Damage to the US social or economic fabric will also be easier to repair the more the rest of the west is ticking along. Well, there’s also the chance that while the U.S. founders, the other westernized democracies will pick up the slack and emerge stronger as a result. I’m vaguely looking forward to Trump fucking up the U.S. enough that it becomes a net oil importer again, with Canada (a top ten exporter) getting richer in the process. Add to that some of the educated immigrants the U.S. benefits from deciding to go to Canada instead because the U.S. has become less friendly to them… yeah, frankly, this could turn out to be a good few years for us, at your expense. Bring it, Yankee! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653.md?page=3)