# Prefer Trump or Pence as president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653 "2017-01-20T18:22:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/41 "2017-01-24T14:41:17Z")
Pence is a grownup, not vengeful, not thin-skinned, and doesn’t Tweet. That’s all to the good. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/42 "2017-01-24T16:24:39Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But what’s the practical downside of that? Nuclear war. Trump’s positions on NATO and China are incredibly destabilizing. That’ the downside; nuclear war. Well, that and his position of trade could cause a global depression. Look, this is an exercise in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: PENCE: Gay people may have barriers to marriage TRUMP: Gay people may be vaporized in a nuclear war PENCE: Americans who aren’t Christian have more Christian crap shoved down their throats TRUMP: Americans of all religious beliefs swept away in a sea of fire PENCE: Abortions harder to get TRUMP: The few pregnant women left alive, huddled in shelters, self-abort due to all the radiation poisoning PENCE: Supreme Court justices really conservative TRUMP: Supreme Court justices are reduced to plasma by a nuclear warhead that explodes above the Supreme Court The choice is really, really easy to make here. Mike Pence would not help the United States as President. But there would BE a United States when his term ended. ---
**Author:** ![Snupzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Snupzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snupzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/43 "2017-02-09T04:30:47Z")
Pence, by a mile. Pence may be a blow-hard with many domestic policy views I disagree with but he also a grown up who does’t undermine our democratic values and standing in the world. He is also not all that likable, especially over time, and would probably be easily beaten in the next election. He’s like a less personable Dubya without the whole grand peace maker delusion. At the end of the day, I’d sleep better with Principle Scowl near the red button than that deranged orange monstrosity. ---
**Author:** ![Snupzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Snupzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snupzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/44 "2017-02-09T04:39:59Z")
Also, all this “Trump is more socially moderate” business is nonsense. Everything he has done so far proves this is not true. Pence is a conservative guy that wants conservative outcomes for their own sake. Trump is an amoral phony that goes miles father to the right than rational just to communicate to his flimsy power base how tough and conservative he is. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/45 "2017-02-09T04:43:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s a hard question, due to Trump’s insanity. Will he give us cake, or death? Death seems likelier, but cake’s a possibility. He’ll give us death cake. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/46 "2017-02-09T05:07:53Z")
I’ve lived in the hell that was Indiana with Pence as governor, and I would still prefer him to Trump. But that isn’t saying much. I would also prefer Jill Stein, Ted Cruz, Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and possibly even Robert E. Lee\*. \*Depends on how accurate Harry Turtledove is. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/47 "2017-02-09T05:18:22Z")
> [@Olfatbut](#): > > Trump over Pence for me. Not an obvious choice but I think there are enough checks in place to precent an actual nuclear whoopsie by tweet. > > “Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families,” > > That’s totally at odds with the corporatists in congress. The best way out of this mess is if the executive and legislative branches lock horns and quibble for 2 years. With Pence at the helm, everything is fast-tracked. So I’ll take my chances with the mostly-unknown quantity. There are no checks in place for launching nukes. The President has sole authority. There still is no means by which to test if the order from the President is lawful. The only “check” is hoping that the people actually releasing the nukes would deliberately disobey orders, and that no one else would replace them. In a military that mostly supports Trump, and has been psychologically conditioned to follow orders.’ Nuking a country is a very real threat with Trump. The only thing holding him back is his own distaste for nukes. But he does a lot of things when he is pissed. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/48 "2017-02-09T05:29:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But he does a lot of things when he is pissed. Yeah. If Putin unfriends him on facebook, duck and cover. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/49 "2017-02-09T17:45:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There are no checks in place for launching nukes. The President has sole authority. There still is no means by which to test if the order from the President is lawful. > > The only “check” is hoping that the people actually releasing the nukes would deliberately disobey orders, and that no one else would replace them. In a military that mostly supports Trump, and has been psychologically conditioned to follow orders.’ Not [exactly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Codes). > [@](#): > > A two-man rule applies, however: the National Command Authority comprising the president and Secretary of Defense must jointly authenticate the order to use nuclear weapons to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[6] The order would then be transmitted over a tan-yellow phone, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Alerting Network, otherwise known as the “Gold Phone”, that directly links the NMCC with United States Strategic Command Headquarters at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska.[citation needed] It is argued by Franklin Miller that the President has almost single authority to initiate a nuclear attack since the Secretary of Defense is required to verify the order, but cannot legally veto it.[12][13] However, Section 4 of the 25th Amendment of the Constitution allows for the vice president, together with a majority of cabinet heads or Congress, to declare the President disabled or unfit to execute the duties of the office.[14] It takes the POTUS and Sec. of Defense working in collusion to launch a nuclear attack. While the SoD cannot stop the order by his own authority, he can alert the VP and Congress if he feels that the order is spurious. Could the POTUS and SoD conspire to nuke the world and all others in the chain blindly follow their orders? It could happen. Is it likely? Not remotely. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/50 "2017-02-09T18:49:00Z")
Pence, by a mile. We’ve had awful presidents before. We’ve never had _this_ before. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/51 "2017-02-09T19:20:01Z")
I feel towards Trump rather as I do towards Ruth Ginsberg. I don’t wish them any ill, but whoever the replacement would be is bound to be better. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/52 "2017-02-09T19:35:06Z")
Pence. I think it’s fairly obvious even this short a time since his inauguration that Trump will use his office in the same way he uses Twitter. He wants to punch people, to bite and kick and make his presence felt. He wants to be the focus of all attention all the time. He is the tantruming child who would rather be taken out of the restaurant for spitting than ignored. He is desperate for validation, for attention, for people to think about him, to love or hate him, to feel his power. Pence is wrong. Trump is mean. And I’m stunned to see people still talking about all the checks on Trump’s power. The Republicans mutter a bit, then do whatever Trump wants. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/53 "2017-02-09T19:47:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There are no checks in place for launching nukes. The President has sole authority. There still is no means by which to test if the order from the President is lawful. > > … An order from the POTUS to launch nukes is lawful as far as the military is concerned, and they have all the nukes. If Trump goes nuts, and pushes the button, we’re all screwed. Except the Trump family, they will already be in a shelter somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/54 "2017-02-09T19:49:17Z")
I was on the fence when this was originally posted. I thought that Trump would be more damaging to the Republican brand than Pence would, and help Democrats in the long run. But the total shit show of massive incompetence, lying, self-absorption, venality, and derangement that’s been on display since the inauguration has convinced me that virtually anyone would be better. Trump is doing damage not just to Republicans, but to the American brand. He’s not going to improve. Having this idiocy go on for another four years would be unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/55 "2017-02-09T20:01:26Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The Republicans mutter a bit, then do whatever Trump wants. Anyone who isn’t clear on that after the Senate confirmed Sessions and DeVos…well, I don’t know what it would take. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/56 "2017-02-09T20:28:01Z")
It’s a tough choice but I go with Pence. Trump is an obvious twitifying nutjob with a white supremacist in his ear, garbage fire cabinet, and no real intention of governing. Pence is at least a nuanced politician who would presumably be interested in playing the Washington game. The biggest drawback is the Pence actually drinks the proverbial Kool Aid as far as being a far right “Christian” goes. The next question is who would assume the VP position should Pence be elevated to presidency. Pence would get to nominate his VP, would it go to Ryan? > **[Replacing the Vice President - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/replacing-the-vice-president/)** > > Q: If a vice president assumes the presidency, who becomes vice president? A: The new president appoints someone to fill his or her old position, subject to congressional approval. FULL QUESTION If the president dies, and the VP is sworn in as the... ---
**Author:** ![FatOrangeCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@FatOrangeCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatOrangeCat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/57 "2017-02-09T20:49:13Z")
Pence= evil. Trump= evil + mentally ill. Pence gets my vote. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/58 "2017-02-09T20:49:39Z")
Pence, not even a contest. Pence is predictable. Pence has actually been in a fairly high level of government. Trump seems to just be there to sign anything koo-koo Bannon cooks up for him, and that is terrifying. edit: as an aside, does anyone else think Bannon is a heavy drinker? he seems to have or is forming a drinker’s nose. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/59 "2017-02-09T20:51:44Z")
As much as I dislike Pence and all that he stands for, he at least appears mentally stable. So I prefer him to our current “pussy-grabber-in-chief”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653/60 "2017-02-09T22:56:21Z")
It’s a bit early. Let Trump get settled in and used to the restrictions of the position and ask again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prefer-trump-or-pence-as-president/777653.md?page=4)