# Preferred form of LGBTQ initialism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106 "2023-04-03T23:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/43 "2023-04-06T21:45:48Z")
It’s certainly less like compiling the Periodic Table of the Elements and more like coming up with the inclusive list of all the eras of European classical music from Baroque to Postmodern. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/44 "2023-04-07T02:28:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Having lots of options to self-identify seems like a good thing, not a problem. Yes, exactly. I find it problematic, though, to dismiss the way someone self identifies as “just a variant” of something that they don’t identify with. There has been a tremendous amount of gatekeeping around gender identities, and it’s problematic for anyone outside of those identities to decide which ones are valid or distinct, which ones are “just variants,” and which ones are umbrella terms that the others fit under. With time, things may coalesce naturally, or, concepts of gender could continue to splinter into ever more individualised descriptions. Whatever happens, it should come from the people who claim the identities. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/45 "2023-04-07T03:15:06Z")
What eschodinger says is quite true. I use “genderqueer” as my identity-label of choice. It’s usually treated as “just a variant” of transgender. In practice that means that people assume that everything they’ve learned or heard about being transgender is applicable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/46 "2023-04-07T03:39:30Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > With time, things may coalesce naturally, or, concepts of gender could continue to splinter into ever more individualised descriptions. Whatever happens, it should come from the people who claim the identities. The end state will be to stop labeling people, including ourselves. Be who you are; labels are boxes we don’t need. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/47 "2023-04-07T03:53:49Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The end state will be to stop labeling people, including ourselves. Be who you are; labels are boxes we don’t need. Ermm… > **[Can't We All Just Be Equal (Without Jumping Up & Down About Your Own...](https://ahunter3.livejournal.com/5403.html)** > > There are two recurrent and interrelated comments or lines of thought that have cropped up quite often over the years in which I've been trying to do this: • What is it that you hope to accomplish? What's your goal, your ideal outcome, if your... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/48 "2023-04-07T11:38:26Z")
Hmm, i think of “genderqueer” as being a broader category, so i probably don’t understand your usage. Except it does suggest “those boxes don’t fit comfortably”. While i would love to live in a world without labels, i think it’s extraordinarily unlikely. Fwiw, it’s sort of how i was reared. I was told that it didn’t matter whether you.were male or female, we should treat everyone the same. The people who told me that didn’t contemplate anything other than “male” and “female”, but i still think it’s an empowering ideal. I grew up as a butch woman without anyone important making me feel it was wrong. “Important”, i guess, is mostly your parents, childhood friends, and those in authority. I have been thrown out of a college rooming group for being inadequately feminine, and had other “you’re not acting right for your gender” experiences. But i got really lucky that way. Lots of people reared at the same time i was got forced into one of two boxes, and developed a lot of pain where the boxes didn’t fit them. I think the current trend towards lots of labels is a reaction to that. And a new experiment. We will always have people who comfortably fit in a gender binary, and people who don’t. And there are lots of ways to “not fit comfortably”. I think the important question for society to answer is how to nourish and support humans in all their diversity. I think the jury is still out on how well “let’s recognize many many distinct identities” will work. But it seems worth a try, since “just treat everyone the same” didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/49 "2023-04-07T13:33:07Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hmm, i think of “genderqueer” as being a broader category, so i probably don’t understand your usage. Except it does suggest “those boxes don’t fit comfortably”. It is, and it does. Genderqueer and Transgender are _both_ umbrella terms that encompass, at least in theory, any non-conventional gender. But there are different connotations. Transgender is extremely associated in people’s minds with transitioning. Therefore with the attitudes and memes about deadnaming, “trans women are women”, bathroom access, being on T, binders, packers, “nobody’s business what’s inside my underwear”, and electrolysis. So sort of by default, Genderqueer tends to be used more by people who aren’t transitioners. Who aren’t “binary trans”. For whom it is entirely wrong or an oversimplification to think of us as having been born one sex and then realize our gender is the other one, and then we adorn and garb ourselves so as to be perceived as a member of our real sex/gender. Who wish to be seen and treated as no different from everyone else of that gender. I’m totally on board with being an ally of all who fit that description, but I don’t fit that description. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/50 "2023-04-07T13:48:37Z")
I know a lot of people who self-describe as “trans” but who haven’t “transitioned” other than what clothes they wear. And they mostly (not all) use “they” as their personal pronoun. I’ve actually spent a lot of energy explaining that “trans” is the usage in “trans fats”, not the usage in “transition”, and refers to not fitting neatly into the box assigned at birth rather than moving or changing in some way. So i get your point, but that’s not the common usage among the trans people i hang out with. The only person i know IRL who identifies as gender queer could also be described as gender fluid. You have to check their name tag to know what name and pronouns to use right now. Which is another reason a lot of options is good. There are currently a lot of “dialects” out there. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/51 "2023-04-07T15:49:14Z")
There are many ways to be genderqueer besides being genderfluid. Genderqueer is about the queering of gender. I consider myself genderqueer and also transmasculine. Both labels apply, but they are not synonyms. Nor does one fit under the other. In no way am I genderfluid, and I don’t consider myself nonbinary. I don’t use they/them pronouns. (She/her) I am also very much _not_ a trans man. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/52 "2023-04-07T16:10:18Z")
Okay, thanks. I honestly think my friends use different descriptive words than your circle does. Again, that’s a good reason to offer lots of choices. (Also, i didn’t mean to imply that “genderqueer” means gender fluid, although I see my post could be taken that way. Just that the only person i know who uses genderqueer is also gender fluid.) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/53 "2023-04-07T16:41:13Z")
I’m not genderfluid either, nor am I agender. I have a sex and a gender. They aren’t one of the two conventional combos (male men and female women). That makes my gender queer instead of normative, hence I’m genderqueer. I am not a trans woman or a cis man. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/54 "2023-04-07T16:50:50Z")
I think there is a generational difference as well. I am active in a few subreddits that have a lot of young users. I wouldn’t even have words to describe myself if I were limited to the words of my generation – but even among the newer terms I think there are identities more likely to be claimed by older or younger people. I’m not sure that that is entirely about usage differences. I think, for myself, I might actually have a different identity if I were growing up now than what I have, having grown up as I did, and having the life experiences that I do. (No, I don’t think all people are born with one specific gender that never changes – some people are, and some are not.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/55 "2023-04-07T16:54:18Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I think there is a generational difference as well. I’m certain this is true. Most of my trans friends are in their 20s and 30s, fwiw. A trans friend in his 40s has discussed some of the generational differences he has come across in a lot of detail. > [@eschrodinger](#): > > I think, for myself, I might actually have a different identity if I were growing up now than what I have, having grown up as I did, and having the life experiences that I do. Ditto for me. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/56 "2023-04-07T17:28:10Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I know a lot of people who self-describe as “trans” but who haven’t “transitioned” other than what clothes they wear. (Jumping off point, not disputing.) A portion of trans people – those who “fully” transition from male to female or vice versa, use “trans” as more of a descriptor than an identity. The identity is “woman” or “man” and after transitioning, they would only want to have to specify being trans if it was necessary for some reason. For others, including some who fully transition, being trans is part of their identity. They identify specifically as trans-women, or trans-men. The transness is part of their identity. And then for some trans-identified people, being trans is one part of their particular flavor of identity, and could also include multiple other descriptors that each add information. Like, I am a genderqueer transmasc butch lesbian. Each of those parts of my identity mean distinct things to me. In some contexts, I might only mention one or two of them, because they provide the relevant piece of information. Also, it’s important to note that not everyone who takes steps to medically align their gender expression with their identity is transitioning from one binary gender to another. For example, some AFAB people who identify as nonbinary, agender, genderqueer, and/or as women, take testosterone and/or have top surgery. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/57 "2023-04-07T17:29:44Z")
For that matter, the must common gender affirmation surgery in the US is cis women getting breast enhancements. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/58 "2023-04-07T17:33:34Z")
Hmm. I’ll have to think about that. With few exceptions, I would not tend to think of that as gender-affirming surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/59 "2023-04-07T20:16:32Z")
It is, though. They consider themselves female, and so get surgery to make their bodies more closely conform to their notion of feminine. ---
**Author:** ![Nightaudit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightaudit/32/17181_2.png) [@Nightaudit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightaudit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/60 "2023-04-08T00:33:24Z")
Hell it confuses some of us too. It seems like every time I turn around there’s another letter tacked on. I’m just feeling old and entering that “damn kids are on my lawn” phase of life… ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/61 "2023-04-08T02:11:43Z")
Is that why women get breast augmentation? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe it that way. I said there was an exception, in which I would imagine that that is the reason, but I am not sure that’s why most women do it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106/62 "2023-04-08T05:12:59Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > I think, for myself, I might actually have a different identity if I were growing up now than what I have, having grown up as I did, and having the life experiences that I do. In the past couple of years, I’ve come to realize much the same about myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/preferred-form-of-lgbtq-initialism/982106.md?page=4)