Pregnant Brit Facing Execution in Laos -- Don't Smuggle Drugs in SE Asia, People!

[SciFiSam]

@Siam_Sam

Yes, you are correct. There is a mandatory death sentence regardless of how long it’s been since Laos has executed someone, and a deal has not yet been cut. And quite honestly, since this is Laos we’re talking about, there’s no chance she will be found not guilty. So I stand by my wording.

I also said I felt sorry for her “to a certain extent.”

There’s just no pleasing some people. :rolleyes:

The UK had a mandatory death sentence for treason for decades after the death sentence for other offences was repealed. In reality, the fact that a country hasn’t executed anyone for over a decade is more significant than the fact the statute books still state that they could. Unless you think that they would break that 20 year drought for a pregnant woman on a first offence (if she’s convicted). Given that the country doesn’t, apparently, execute pregnant women at all, your headline was just not true.

@Lust4Life

The U.K. papers have been headlining this all over the place as Brit woman faces execution so SiamSiam is quite right to head his post with this.

Yes, they have. They’re wrong too - by any definition of wrong. If national newspapers use a factually inaccurate headline, that doesn’t mean everyone else is entitled to repeat it without correction.

If the woman wasn’t caught trying to smuggle heroin strapped to her body but is in this situation then I feel every possible sympathy with her and her family.

If however she did try to beat the system and make herself a lot of money criminally then as the saying goes “If you cant do the time then you dont do the crime” and I would incclude in this execution.

If guilty she knew what was at stake when she committed the crime, thats why people make lots of money out of it because of that very risk,small risk,small profit.

So she can’t then whine about her self inflicted predicament when her gamble doesn’t pay off,whatever her nationality,one law for all.

See, we don’t know anything about the details of this case. I don’t know about you, but I don’t trust the UK system to always charge the right person, and I’m not about to assume that Thailand always does charge the right person.

When there are topics about people accused of crimes in the US, loads of people chime in to point out that maybe they didn’t do it. Why is that different when someone’s accused of a crime in Laos? Do the Laos authorities have access to the Minority Report psychics? Is the criminal justice system in Laos so wonderful that this woman - even as a Westerner - will have the best representation ever, and all evidence will be closely examined in every way possible?

Given that this woman fell pregnant in prison, and given the conditions in prisons - even prisons for people who have not been convicted - in Laos, I wouldn’t presume that their criminal justice system was better than everywhere else.

Hell, even you, Siam Sam, admit that the Laos criminal justice system means she’ll be found guilty. Does it not matter whether she actually did it? I mean, to you, if not the criminal justice system there (I can’t talk to them). If you know that her actual guilt is irrelevant, why act as though she definitely did it?

As far as wider issues go, Mr Krebbs has it on the money. If she is guilty of smuggling drugs, then it’s pretty damn unlikely that killing her will stop drug smuggling in general.

[A_Spoonful_of_Awesome]

I’ve been watching a lot of the “Locked Up Abroad” episodes on Youtube. It’s amazing how the promise of a little bit of money will blind greedy tourists to the dangers of smuggling drugs. Not even that much money, from what I’ve seen. Usually somewhere between 3 and 5 grand to risk your life to bring millions worth into a foreign country. I feel sorry for these people, not because they are being punished harshly for violating a very well-known law, but because for whatever reason they felt it was the best option they had at that particular stage of their lives. Sad.

[Koxinga]

But how many get away with it?

[Siam_Sam]

@alexandra

Isn’t there a chance that she was duped, Bridget Jones style?

Not likely. As my last link mentions, the heroin was reportedly found not only in her luggage, but also concealed inside her body.

@scifisam2009

Given that the country doesn’t, apparently, execute pregnant women at all, your headline was just not true.

Words can only fail to describe how glad I am that you have nothing better to get so worked up about other than what is to you an offensive thread heading. :rolleyes:

@A_Spoonful_of_Awesome

I’ve been watching a lot of the “Locked Up Abroad” episodes on Youtube. It’s amazing how the promise of a little bit of money will blind greedy tourists to the dangers of smuggling drugs. Not even that much money, from what I’ve seen. Usually somewhere between 3 and 5 grand to risk your life to bring millions worth into a foreign country. I feel sorry for these people, not because they are being punished harshly for violating a very well-known law, but because for whatever reason they felt it was the best option they had at that particular stage of their lives. Sad.

@Koxinga

But how many get away with it?

I seem to recall at least one poster in another thread who admitted to having done this once. Or was it his brother? Either way, many obviously do succeed, but to me, the risk would just be too great. I’d rather live with the money problems. And it’s often just playing Russian roulette, as the higher-ups have been known to sacrifice a mule or two to the cops so the authorities can show how on top of the drug trade they are.

[Lust4Life]

@Mr.Krebbs

Well, in the US, we have this idea that citizens have a right to punishment that is suited to the crime perpetrated on society. I think that this is to be considered a human right, not just a right I am afforded in my current country of residence.

The law is obviously recognized to be very poor in Laos; there hasn’t been an official execution, even for drug smuggling, in 20 years.

People don’t make lots of money out of drug smuggling entirely due to risk. Drug smuggling may be more profitable in SE Asia due to risk, but the fact is that drugs sell because there is always a demand for them. Everywhere. Always. The penalty for such behavior is of little consequence to those who use or make a profit in drugs.

Further consider that if a psychologist helped you raise a child, that shrink would tell you that in order for punishment to be effective, punishment must be: 1) Swift 2) Consistent and 3) Appropriate. If a law doesn’t fall under those categories, it is less likely to be obeyed by the populace. Drug penalties are none of those things.

Finally, this woman is almost definitely not a drug dealer: she is a mule. What good does executing a mule do? This girl is of less consequence to the dealer than the product he lost when the authorities found it on the woman.

Will executing mules make it less likely for people to become mules? Probably not. It will just encourage people who are more desperate for cash to attempt it; that is, if most of these people even bother to find out about the drug laws in the country they are told to smuggle into at all.

Don’t you think we should have an argument about natural law given the situation?

At the very least, don’t condone a draconian system by saying, essentially, that “the law is the law.” That’s utter stupidity.

ETA: No, I don’t think that western nations should apply pressure to SE Asian countries (or anyone else for that matter) to adopt our legal reasoning. I do think we have valid reasons to condemn such laws on internet message boards, however.

No there is no natural law, there is only manmade law, and regardless of what some people think in the U.S. about having a right to punishment based on the crimes impact on society this has no bearing whatsoever on how other nations legislate.

Just because you can get away with something in your own country with a slapped wrist doesn’t mean that you expect the same degree of leniency where ever you go.

Taken to its logical extreme it would mean that someone from Saudi Arabia visiting the U.S. who was the victim of a burgulary while there could morally justify asking for the perpetrator to have his left hand amputated as a punishment .

Because Saudi citizens have this idea that crimes should be based on their traditions and as they’ve been around for longer then the U.S has existed as a nation then theirs is an entirely valid opinion even though they’re not in the country of their normal residence.

Does that work for you?
No it doesn’t does it?
Its complete nonsense.
But thats what you’re proposing.

I drink alcohol and I sleep with women that I’m not married to and I enjoy it.

But if I visit Saudi Arabia I don’t do those things,if I did do so I’d realise that I was taking a gamble on being caught and if I lost that gamble and got a flogging then I wouldn’t whine about it.

I have the choice of not breaking that countrys laws or I have the choice of not going to that country.

As to the "poor little her she was only a mule etc.etc. " I doubt if the victims of drug addiction would make any big differentiation between her and her putative employer(If that really is the case and she wasn’t doing a bit of opportunistic smuggling on her own behalf)
You shouldn’t be so harsh on me ,yes I shot and killed the victim but the real criminal is the person who hired me and she didn’t pay me very much money…
No sorry, thinking that you can go anywhere you like and behave how you like is cultural arrogance of the worst possible sort,
“Oh no the laws don’t apply to me because I’m a Westerner.”
If you honestly believe that then I respectfully suggest that you stay within the confines of the U.S.

[Siam_Sam]

Laos has announced they won’t execute the lady when … er, if she’s found guilty. Hope for her sake she can serve her sentence back home, or as I indicated, she could die a slow death there anyway.

[LouisB]

@scifisam2009

Well, given that he quoted the part where it says that Laos hasn’t executed anyone for 20 years and doesn’t execute pregnant women, I think both he and the person who wrote the article are in the wrong. Actually, no, not think - I’m certain of it.

Interesting that the OP glossed over the ‘accused’ part and went straight for the ‘this woman brought this on herself’ part.

Siam Sam, please answer me:

Why did you gloss over the fact that she’s only accused, not convicted on any crime?

Why did you go with the title that said she and her unborn child faced execution?

Your OP makes it sound as though you think drug smuggling merits a death sentence for pregnant women. Is that right?

If I had any interest in this subject, I’d ask why you are trying to make such a mountain out of such a molehill but since I don’t have any interest, don’t bother to reply.

[Siam_Sam]

Her “trial” starts today (Wednesday). Story here.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

Drugs to Southeast Asia? Drugs come from Southeast Asia.

[Anne_Neville]

She was sentenced to life in prison.

[Ludovic]

In Russia, drugs come from YOU! (Or maybe I’m thinking of Chicha.)

[Q.E.D]

@Ludovic

In Russia, drugs come from YOU! (Or maybe I’m thinking of Chicha.)

Ah, yes, Soylent Heroin.

[Chimera]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Drugs to Southeast Asia? Drugs come from Southeast Asia.

Kinda like the story a friend told about seeing a British woman at the airport in JAMAICA, caught for smuggling pot INTO the country.

[ParentalAdvisory]

@Anne_Neville

She was sentenced to life in prison.

Thank God. The world will be so much safer with her rotting in prison. No more drugs will ever get through to the area.

[DigitalC]

@ParentalAdvisory

Thank God. The world will be so much safer with her rotting in prison. No more drugs will ever get through to the area.

I would imagine a lot less than if they were more lenient.

[Siam_Sam]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Drugs to Southeast Asia? Drugs come from Southeast Asia.

I believe the drugs were destined for elsewhere, but she just stopped off on Laos. May have just been in transit when she got popped at the airport.

You hear from time to time of cocaine in Thailand. Usually brought in by rich Thai kids who have gone to school in the West, and use is largely confined to that crowd, so it’s difficult to bust.

@Anne_Neville

She was sentenced to life in prison.

You beat me to it.

[Cat_Fight]

So what’s happening to the prison guard who ‘had sex’ with her? (Really? When did that happen? Prisoners without much else on their mind can just let off some steam and have sex with people who have power over their lives?)

[Siam_Sam]

The story seems to be it was another prisoner. The prison officials say she said herself that she artificially impregnated herself with another prisoner’s sperm, but no one’s been able to ask her to confirm that. How would that work anyway? But I can believe she could very well have decided to become pregnant in hopes she could avoid execution that way.

[Siam_Sam]

Looks like her return to Britain is imminent. Update here.

[carnivorousplant]

From link:

A government-run Lao newspaper reported that Orobator said she impregnated herself with sperm from another prisoner.

Man, that’s grim. I don’t want to even think about it, and wish her all the best.