Pregnant women can't divorce?

[RTFirefly]

@iampunha

@RTFirefly

I don’t know about right now, but certainly up until very recent years, the pro-life Christian right was periodically up in arms about how ‘easy’ it was for social workers to ‘interfere’ with parents’ disciplining of their own children.

I’ll take your word for it, I guess. My experience tended to the folks who weren’t as shrill (and, as such, are under-represented in the minds and eyes of those not familiar with the movement, of which I was once a part).

Here’s a few current words from James “Focus on the Family” Dobson on the subject. (Many people feel Dobson’s supplanted Pat Robertson as the Christian Right’s big dog.)

[Q.] There is some controversy over whether a parent should spank with his or her hand or with some other object, such as a belt or paddle. What do you recommend?

[A.] I recommend a neutral object of some type.

To those who disagree on this point, I’d encourage them to do what seems right. It is not a critical issue to me. The reason I suggest a switch or paddle is because the hand should be seen as an object of love – to hold, hug, pat, and caress. However, if you’re used to suddenly disciplining with the hand, your child may not know when she’s about to be swatted and can develop a pattern of flinching when you make an unexpected move. This is not a problem if you take the time to use a neutral object.

And elsewhere on his site:

Dr. Walt Larimore, family physician and Vice President of Medical Outreach for Focus on the Family, disagrees, "Parents should never discipline their children in anger; however it is an offensive notion that lovingly administered spanking is tantamount to abuse.

Yep, a lovingly administered application of a switch to your child’s butt.

And it gets better:

Used with children from approximately 18 months to six years of age (Any spanking over the age of six should be very rare and never after the age of nine.), spanking has been shown to be effective…

Guess the switch and the paddle become less effective during the early to mid elementary school years. But they’re perfect for toddlers and preschoolers.

I trust you aren’t proffering Falwell as a mainstream anything

I’m willing to listen to evidence that he’s somehow no longer part of the Christian Right’s mainstream. But I don’t see it. He’s no longer the Big Cheese that he was 20-25 years ago, but AFAICT he’s still very much a part of the in-crowd. If you’re at an evangelical church, and you mention that your kid (or you, if you’re the right age) is attending Liberty U., it’s unlikely that anyone’s going to disapprove or question whether you should be sending your kid to Falwell U.

However, I disagree completely with the notion that pro-lifers as a generalization divorce themselves from the next 18 years of a child’s life and that implication is unnecessarily trite and inflammatory.

Hmmm. How much daylight is there (if any) between ‘most’ and ‘as a generalization’? Wanna make sure what we disagree on here.

You’ve already noted the connection between the right-wing interference with social work. Do you think it is reasonably justified to say that those who are vocal in their opposal of any and all abortions are also those pushing for less tax money spent on the poor?

A majority, certainly.

And, of course, nobody stands at the doors of soup kitchens or homeless shelters or battered women’s shelters or orphanages or those places asking if you’re pro-life. My hope is that what I know is being done in the way of charity work on the part of pro-lifers is not a data spike, so to speak.

I won’t gainsay you on this. But still, it’s rare that charity can fill a major need to anything like the extent that tax dollars can. And anyone saying “we want to see these people helped, but the more important principle is that it not be done by the government” clearly cares more about the principle than the people.

[Siege]

@duffer

If any Dopers here consider an abortion, consider my wife and I for parents. It’s unlikely we’ll get the $25,000 cash for IVF before being too old to be effective parents, and adoption is, at best, a gamble. Neither of us are a lesbian Holywood actress.

Yeah, I know, it’s not a human. It may be a cat or dog when birthed. Anything but human, right?

When you want to raise a child and put so much value on a child, you tend to have a different view on the “It’s a choice” argument.

Duffer, if I were in that position, I’d take you up on it, but it’d take a bit more than you offered. You see, the Family and Medical Leave Act specifies unpaid leave, so, if I were to be pregnant, I’d be out at least two month’s salary. I’m a programmer with no other means of support, so someone would need to make up for that. Since I will need to go out in public, I will need at least a minimum of maternity clothes, although second hand is fine for that. I’ll also need to cover medical expenses including 8 or 9 months of prenatal care and the expense of the delivery itself. Your $25,000 for IVF may be cheaper. “Just keeping the baby” isn’t always that simple.

As for the OP, all I can say is I’m appalled. Can it really be better to tie a woman and baby to an abusive man? I’m no fan of divorce, but I do make an exception for abuse. Would it have been better for this woman not to have had sex with her boyfriend until after her divorce was final? To me, the answer’s “Of course!” On the other hand, her husband may have delayed things for any number of reasons including logistical ones resulting from his being in jail. Still, I cannot believe that the chance of a child’s being “illegitimized” is a greater danger to the child than being legally tied to a physically abusive mind. There ain’t enough :rolleyes:'s in the world!

CJ

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@OtakuLoki

I seem to recall a proverb about interesting cases leading to bad law. This looks like someone is trying to make a point about bad law, and not giving a damn about the people being ground up in the cogs.

“Hard cases make bad law.”

There are better ways to advocate for changing a bad law than to royally fuck over the people involved here.

[JRDelirious]

Back to the &^%$# OP…

There is of course a legal alternative to this Judge’s foolish view of life.

Abolish the legal condition of “illegitimate”. As long as you have the results of a test or a sworn affidavit from someone man enough to own up to it, the child has a legal father. Wedlock, schmedlock.

[dropzone]

@Chotii

What you have here is a case of judicial activism.

Nope, it can’t be. Only liberal judges can be activist judges. :rolleyes:

[Zoe]

Lib: I’m not sure that leftists, who advocate that poor women be publically subsidized baby factories…

Neeeuw, not at all. We advocate that men who are baby factories be equally responsible for their product line.

(Cue Male Greek Chorus: We know nothing of the birthing of babies and participate not. It is the women! The women!)

[OtakuLoki]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

“Hard cases make bad law.”

There are better ways to advocate for changing a bad law than to royally fuck over the people involved here.

Thanks. I knew it was something like that.

And I think I’d already made my views about how palatable I found his tactics, if that’s what’s going on in his pointy, little, depressurized cranium. It was just a guess to try to find some way to make this whole nonsense the result of some rational decision. Immoral, but rational.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

I’d be more inclined to call it moralizing irrationality.

[Miller]

@Marley23

When did asking for cites in the Pit become the thing to do anyway?

Since before I started posting here, at least. I really hate this idea that outrageous allegations in the Pit don’t need to be backed up by cites. The Pit is as much a debate forum as any other on the boards, and a better one than most. I’d like to keep it that way, and not turn it into a pointless twaddlefest like Great Debates.

[Voyager]

@Zoe

Neeeuw, not at all. We advocate that men who are baby factories be equally responsible for their product line.

(Cue Male Greek Chorus: We know nothing of the birthing of babies and participate not. It is the women! The women!)

Hell, I could have done a better job than my wife. I’m more pain tolerant, and probably could have done it in half the time.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

:: Examines Voyager’s delivery orifice ::

:dubious: