# Prelude to South Africa 2010: the 2009 Confederation Cup **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 12, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553 "2009-06-12T15:16:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/41 "2009-06-16T01:09:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, rubbish. England has had at least three of the top 25 players in the world on every World and European Cup squads since 1998. The talent is there; the coaching and the luck aren’t. Clearly you and I are going to get on famously should we both be still around come the WC. Meantime, rubbish _yourself_ pal – you’re the one that opened the fireworks here by declaring Spain a “Paper Tiger”…the same Paper Tiger that has schooled your squad the last three consecutive times we’ve met. However, rancor was not my motivation for writing what I did about England, reality is\*. I could go on and write a detailed post on the meaning of “overall talent” and specifically how its been lacking for close to a decade on your side – but rather than put you to sleep, name one, just _one_ keeper that England’s had that was world class in the past ten years. And to save you the trouble of a reply, I’ll give it to you myself. None. _Not even one in top five_ in the past decade: [**IFFHS World’s Best Goalkeeper**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFFHS_World%27s_Best_Goalkeeper) And other than Brazil at their very best, I don’t know of a single team in the world that can claim a title with a mediocre goalie. Speaking NTs here to be specific. \*If you want a dispassionate account which is rather close to my own thoughts on the matter of England v Spain, talent and so forth, I suggest you read this article by Paul Hayward – a fellow countryman of yours if I am not mistaken: [\*\* Iberian power shift provides the Real riposte to Premier League self-regard\*\*](http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jun/14/real-madrid-cristiano-ronaldo-barcelona-spain) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/42 "2009-06-17T14:58:10Z")
Well, Bora’s Boys are playing typical Milutinovic football (read: everyone behind the ball and try for 0 - 0). Of course, against Spain, I almost agree with him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/43 "2009-06-17T15:01:53Z")
Big ups to a very well played first half by the Iraqi side – clearly, Bora\*, The Old Fox, knew exactly what and where he wanted his players in order to stall Spain’s attack. What was so surprising is how well those youngsters executed his plan. No excuses for la Roja, the fact that Del Bosque had promised to play his whole squad through the qualifying stage means nothing. The four reserves on the pitch today have/had (expects subs shortly) a chance to earn more minutes, so if anything that should had driven them more. Instead we looked lethargic out there. But again, much credit to the Iraqis. Not an entertaining match so far, but the unexpected tie at the half promises an interesting additional 45 minutes. From that perspective, certainly worth watching. \*The poor man’s Hiddink…though he is the one that actually holds the record for most NTs coached. Like the guy. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/44 "2009-06-17T16:01:51Z")
Guess that’s as one sided a one nill match as you’re likely to see and other than keeping the streaks\* alive, not much else to write home about. Oh yeah, we are also through to the semis. Congrats to Iraq for giving it their all. Well played. \*34 undefeated, one short of Brazil’s record, 14 consecutive wins, ties Australia :eek:, Brazil and France for that one. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/45 "2009-06-17T16:06:58Z")
The result you expect for a Bora team against a top-flight opponent. Watched Brazil do it to us back on July 4, 1994, even though they were down a man after the 43rd minute. Spain looked much less imposing. Not sure what happened to those lovely overlapping runs down the left side from the NZ game. Notice the goal came off of one of those runs. Perhaps the only one in the game. Iraq had their chances, but they are naive with the ball trying to break down a defense. As a result, they are forced into lots of long-distance hopes. Of course, it’s not like Spain are terrible at their back… 😛 Now, on to the really important question: in what order will Spain face the other two giants? Brazil, then Italy? Or Italy, then Brazil? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/46 "2009-06-17T20:30:02Z")
Sad to say for the hosts, but winning that game against NZ only 2 - 0 is probably going to put them out of the tournament. Now they have to hope for one of two things: they can hold Spain and claim a point, or they can lose to Spain 2 - 1 and hope that Iraq doesn’t find it’s ability to score goals against the All Whites. Nice to see the home side notch the points, though. Be better if they actually had the stadiums filled… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/47 "2009-06-18T00:42:30Z")
**DS** , keen eye, well spotted. I’m talking about your comments regarding Spain’s lack of overlapping runs, and, more specifically not opening the pitch enough especially _towards the left wing_. As you well know one of the few things that footie has always lacked for, as opposed to the other Big Sports, is the minutia of stats that they have. With the Brits leading the charge that has changed quite a bit in past few years, thus we now have all sorts of data points that were only available intuitively before. What I am getting at is that only just last night I read an article in my all-time favorite Spanish sports rag, [**AS**](http://www.as.com/), which broke down the number of goals scored during our run. Guess what? Spot on, bud! A striking 40+% of all of our goals have come from that very side. When you consider all possible options for scoring, we’re indeed decidedly prone to get our best results coming in from the port side. Now shhhh! Please do not forward this info to any of our future rivals. 😉 As for Bora, yep, know him well and in fact watched that very match you alluded to\*. The only time I’ve seen him differ from the method is when he had a spin with Nigeria, in France '98. That’s when we fell to them in a cracker of a match, ultimately decided by Zubi’s howling blunder – which in turn, marked the end of his historic career as the most capped Spanish player of all time. Anyway, again, hats off to you and your knowledge of the game, sir. - I also remember Alexis Lala’s keen quote when asked about Bora’s future after leaving the US squad. He said something to the effect of: “Oh I dunno. Prolly coaching the Moon to the next WC.” What a Prophet! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/48 "2009-06-18T02:32:08Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > - I also remember Alexis Lala’s keen quote when asked about Bora’s future after leaving the US squad. He said something to the effect of: “Oh I dunno. Prolly coaching the Moon to the next WC.” What a Prophet! 😛 Those may be the only intelligent words that Alexi Lalas has ever muttered! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/49 "2009-06-18T04:24:13Z")
Somehow the stars aligned and DPR Korea made it into the Finals next summer. That’s as close to the moon as you can get. Maybe we’ll get lucky and jealousy will piss off the Chinese so that they now pull support for the Deer Leader. BTW, very impressed that a Spaniard can cite Alexi Lalas. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/50 "2009-06-18T04:26:52Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > BTW, very impressed that a Spaniard can cite Alexi Lalas. Best beard in sports! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/51 "2009-06-18T13:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Here are the starters for today’s game against Brazil: > 1-Howard, 2-Bornstein, 5-Oguchi Onyewu, 7-DaMarcus Beasley, 8-Clint Dempsey, 10-Landon Donovan, 12-Michael Bradley, 15-Jay DeMerit, 16-Sacha Kljestan, 17-Jozy Altidore, 21-Jonathan Spector > > ``` > * All other players make the bench, with Ricardo Clark suspended. > * Bornstein is carrying a yellow card from the first game, and will miss the next match if booked. > > ``` > > Brazil’s Lineup: > 1-Julio Cesar, 2-Maicon, 3-Lucio (c), 5-Felipe Melo, 8-Gilberto Silva, 9-Luis Fabiano, 10-Kaka, 11-Robinho, 15-Miranda, 16-Andre Santos, 18-Ramires > > ``` > * Nobody on Brazil is carrying a yellow card. > * Defender, Juan, who started the last match, is listed as injured. > > ``` So Klejstan and Beasley start this one, while Feilhaber and Clark sit (Clark not available). I think this could get really ugly. Apparently they don’t feel Bocanegra was healed enough to get the start. Both Klejstan and Beasley tend to have a bad first touch, which can get you killed against the Brazilians. If the Americans stay closer than 3 goals I’d be very surprised. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/52 "2009-06-18T13:51:24Z")
Well, I’m not expecting much from the US, but a draw certainly is possible, which would leave us with a chance. We’d have to hope for an Italian win on Saturday, and that we could notch a two-goal victory over Egypt. THAT part of the equation I don’t think the US has it in them to produce. We really, REALLY need someone in the middle who can create scoring chances, and someone up top who can put them away. That is NOT Clint Dempsey and Jozy Altidore, btw. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/53 "2009-06-18T13:57:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Pitch was not very good, which doesn’t bode well for next year. ☹ That may be because the Lions (a Rugby team) are currently touring South Africa and tearing up the pitches. Interestingly the exact same debate is being had about poor crowds at the Lions warm up matches. Problem with having a major sporting event in a country with a large amount of people living poverty I guess. The world cup should draw enough foreign fans to fill the stadiums. As will the three test matches involving the Lions I hope. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/54 "2009-06-18T14:10:55Z")
And Brazil are awarded a free kick in a dangerous area after a Brazilian trips over his own feet. Fantastic officiating. Adding insult to injury, the goal scorer was probably in an offside position at the time of the free kick - it was close. As to the Lions: Rugby totally destroys fields, especially if they’re wet or soft. In a perfect world rugby and soccer would NEVER be played on the same pitch. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/55 "2009-06-18T14:20:29Z")
OMG totally awful. That’s just distressingly poor, leading to that second goal. Beasley misses a pass from a corner kick, and no one recovers and shuts them down. Do we have no one who is fast in the back of the team??? ETA: It’s like men playing with boys. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/56 "2009-06-18T14:52:47Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > As to the Lions: Rugby totally destroys fields, especially if they’re wet or soft. In a perfect world rugby and soccer would NEVER be played on the same pitch. Yeah but unlike the Confederations cup the Lions has a hundred years of history. So dibs! We’ll leave the pitches for the World Cup though… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/57 "2009-06-18T14:58:16Z")
Would someone text Howard and remind him he is, indeed, allowed to leave his line on crosses? Beyond the poor marking on that first goal that should have been an easy trap for him had he just stepped out to meet the ball! As for the second…please…off of a missed _5 meter pass from your own CK_. And again, more blame for Howard, you have to commit one way or the other on one on ones. Words fail. Hope Bradley can muster a good tongue lashing at the break. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/58 "2009-06-18T15:08:54Z")
Ok, well, this is much better to start. Thank goodness Beasley is out of the game. But also, we are seeing players try to do something positive here at the start. Already, Bornstein is doing more on the left than Beasley did all first half. For my money, it’s the coach who wants replacing, but that’s maybe just me… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/59 "2009-06-18T15:14:50Z")
Oh, lovely. A red card. For a rash challenge. Does this sound familiar? :sigh: ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553/60 "2009-06-18T15:23:40Z")
Not that it matters anymore, but that was the first real earned scored – lovely triangulation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prelude-to-south-africa-2010-the-2009-confederation-cup/499553.md?page=4)