# Premiss: "Atheism" is for people who can't handle "Religion". **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199 "2012-01-11T19:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/21 "2012-01-11T20:38:25Z")
God of the Gaps ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/22 "2012-01-11T20:53:54Z")
Of course I disagree. There is much that is unknown, but I submit that assuming that that makes it unknowable is foolish. When you look at the tiny sliver of time we have been observing the universe it would be fatuous to assume that our current level of ignorance will continue. Why, I learn something new every day. It’s just a matter of stringing together enough days. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/23 "2012-01-11T20:58:36Z")
Disagree strongly. I certainly did not come to an atheist position out of “hiding my fears”. Not in the slightest. As has been said, atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Period. I came to this position due to a complete and total lack of evidence, as well as the quite unbelievable (and frequently silly) nature of theist beliefs. ETA: Just take what **Crown Prince of Irony** said, and pretend that I wrote it. I think it is frequently religions that help people create a bulwark against the fear that there is “nothing else out there”, and we are just destined to return to the earth, just like any other animal. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/24 "2012-01-11T21:02:05Z")
> [@mishagoe](#): > > Clearly it is something we do with the wetware we have. Why does it have to be classifed as a hijack or misapplication, when we seem to have been doing this all along and are still doing it. If it is evolutionary bad, why does it have such staying power? What is wrong with assuming this “religion” thing we do is just as important and intellectually rigorous as that “science” thing we do. “Religion” and “science” are not antonyms. Until you understand that fundamental point, you’re going to be confused. I don’t believe in God, nor do I believe that “someday we will fathom our existence in every possible detail, leaving no question unanswered, complete masters of our existence and our future.” That sort of optimism is rarely found outside the faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/25 "2012-01-11T21:03:48Z")
Disagree. it is a pretty big universe, way too big for us to know all the answers. And we sure won’t in my lifetime. I don’t know that my view of the universe was any different back when I used to believe in God. I stopped believing when a study of the Bible and its history made it clear that what I was taught in Hebrew School was baloney - and it is even more so today. As for any other gods, I see no need of that hypothesis. The godless universe makes a lot more sense than one with a god in it. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/26 "2012-01-11T21:07:17Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Disagree. > > Atheism is the default. Nobody is religious until they are taught to be. There aren’t any fears being hidden by the hope that everything can be scientifically explained. One doesn’t really have much to do with the other. > > I’m a staunch atheist. I believe that when I die, my consciousness will ebb away and my body will rot. I accept that as truly as I accept that the moon obits the earth. And yet I’m still scared to death of dying. My fears are plain for all to see. > > … at which point we’ll all realize how futile religion has been all these years. Hallelujah. Do you know what _Hallelujah_ means? ---
**Author:** ![mishagoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@mishagoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mishagoe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/27 "2012-01-11T21:07:47Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > But at the end of the day, we are just mere animals, and the universe will have its way with us, just as with all living things. Religion itself is a bulwark against this idea, telling us that as a people, we’re destined for something bigger. Ok, but that is simply your belief about the universe, given our current scientific understanding of it and your belief about what the purpose of Religion is? I fnd the notion that this meaningless world for no purpose creates living self-conscious beings ad nauseum, and we are led to believe there must be many more earth type planets out there, at least in this universe, to be remarkable and inconsistent with everything else we assume to be scientifically true and rational. By definition the rules that govern matter and energy in this Universe are inevitable given the starting conditions. Self-concsiously aware beings must also be inevitable, given the starting conditions. Self-consciously aware, religious beings, are one of the products of the underlyng laws of this Universe. Why would you say it is delusional? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/28 "2012-01-11T21:07:56Z")
> [@mishagoe](#): > > Atheism is an escape hatch for those of us who are uncomfortable with the notion that the world we exist in is infinit and essentially un-fathomable by us puny humans. In Atheism we can hide our fears behind the belief that eventually all questions can be defined in mathematical relationships and a well stacked table of fundamental particles and forces. The fact that we aren’t there yet is simply because we’ve just barely begun the enterprise, but someday we will fathom our existence in every possible detail, leaving no question unanswered, complete masters of our existence and our future. > > Agree/Disagree ? Atheists can’t handle religion! Son, we live in a world that has mysteries. And those mysteries have to be explained by men with turned-around collars. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Jesuits. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s beliefs, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves beliefs…You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me spouting incomprehensible gibberish. You need me spouting incomprehensible gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/29 "2012-01-11T21:07:57Z")
> [@mishagoe](#): > > Atheism is an escape hatch for those of us who are uncomfortable with the notion that the world we exist in is infinit and essentially un-fathomable by us puny humans. In Atheism we can hide our fears behind the belief that eventually all questions can be defined in mathematical relationships and a well stacked table of fundamental particles and forces. The fact that we aren’t there yet is simply because we’ve just barely begun the enterprise, but someday we will fathom our existence in every possible detail, leaving no question unanswered, complete masters of our existence and our future. > > Agree/Disagree ? You mean as opposed to the idea that one day when we die a magical omnipotent being will tell us all the stuff we didn’t understand while we were alive? Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/30 "2012-01-11T21:09:04Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Do you know what _Hallelujah_ means? Do you know what a joke is? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/31 "2012-01-11T21:10:36Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Disagree strongly. I certainly did not come to an atheist position out of “hiding my fears”. Not in the slightest. > > As has been said, atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Period. I came to this position due to a complete and total lack of evidence, as well as the quite unbelievable (and frequently silly) nature of theist beliefs. > > ETA: Just take what **Crown Prince of Irony** said, and pretend that I wrote it. I think it is frequently religions that help people create a bulwark against the fear that there is “nothing else out there”, and we are just destined to return to the earth, just like any other animal. Wrong. Atheism is the _belief_ that there is no God; it is the **affirmative position that no God exists.** A “lack of belief in a god or gods” describes **agnosticism** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/32 "2012-01-11T21:11:31Z")
If I had to pick one reason I’m an atheist, I’d say it’s because of the idea of a god who made people in his own image. The longer I thought about that idea, the more obvious it was that it was just something people made up. There are a lot of other reasons, but I’m not uncomfortable with the idea that the universe is infite or that the world won’t end with some kind of final judgment, and I don’t believe that eventually we’ll be able to explain all human interactions in terms of math or physics. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/33 "2012-01-11T21:15:54Z")
> [@mishagoe](#): > > Atheism is an escape hatch for those of us who are uncomfortable with the notion that the world we exist in is infinit and essentially un-fathomable by us puny humans. Is there anything more cowardly than giving up and saying “God did it”? I certainly don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/34 "2012-01-11T21:16:10Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Wrong. > > Atheism is the _belief_ that there is no God; it is the **affirmative position that no God exists.** > > A “lack of belief in a god or gods” describes **atheism.** You appear to be confused and fighting with yourself. When you decide what you’re arguing, please repost. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/35 "2012-01-11T21:16:15Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Atheism is the _belief_ that there is no God; it is the **affirmative position that no God exists.** Hey, you forgot to mention the part about how the faithless who lack faith are actually even FAITHIER than the faithful who HAVE faith! Like you do (unconvincingly) in every other thread where atheism is mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/36 "2012-01-11T21:18:17Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Wrong. > > Atheism is the _belief_ that there is no God; it is the **affirmative position that no God exists.** > > A “lack of belief in a god or gods” describes **agnosticism** Sorry but this is wrong. A lack of belief = atheism. Hence, the prefix “a” via “a” + “theist.” In other words, “Not a theist.” Agnosticism is a claim about knowledge and what is knowable. Most atheists are agnostic atheists but don’t bother mentioning the “agnostic” part. To be agnostic about God means you don’t think God is knowable. Hence, “a” + “gnostic.” In other words, it’s like saying “I don’t think we can ever know one way or the other whether or not God exists, but I don’t believe he does.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/37 "2012-01-11T21:18:58Z")
> [@mishagoe](#): > > By definition the rules that govern matter and energy in this Universe are inevitable given the starting conditions. Self-concsiously aware beings must also be inevitable, given the starting conditions. Self-consciously aware, religious beings, are one of the products of the underlyng laws of this Universe. Why would you say it is delusional? Self-consciously aware beings are certainly not inevitable. We may never have evolved on this planet if an asteroid hadn’t taken out the dinosaurs, and the dinosaurs were around for a few hundred million years without leaving any evidence that they were self-aware. It seems likely that on some planets, there will be other self-aware species since there are a _lot_ of planets and if it could happen here, it could happen elsewhere. But, inevitable? Anyway, back to the OP, I’m not hiding from anything with my lack of religion. I was brought up with no religion (my parents aren’t religious), and, Voila!, I have no religion. I don’t even know what I could do to get some. ETA: Man, this thread is moving fast. I’m posting what I wrote, and I hope it isn’t redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/38 "2012-01-11T21:19:56Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Wrong. > > Atheism is the _belief_ that there is no God; it is the **affirmative position that no God exists.** > > A “lack of belief in a god or gods” describes **agnosticism** Seriously? Don’t we have this discussion every week? Atheism is an answer to a question of **belief**. Agnosticism is an answer to a question about **knowledge**. They are not mutually exclusive. If someone asks: Do you believe in God? It’s either a yes or a no. Saying ‘I don’t know’ **doesn’t answer that question**. One could be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist (fideist). Check [out this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Types_of_agnosticism): ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/39 "2012-01-11T21:22:45Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Wrong. > > Atheism is the belief that there is no God; it is the affirmative position that no God exists. > > A “lack of belief in a god or gods” describes **agnosticism** (De-emphasis mine) The affirmative position is usually called “strong atheism”, but a simple lack of belief is still atheism. A-theism, without theism. A-gnostic, without knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199/40 "2012-01-11T21:24:28Z")
I’m an atheist because my mom didn’t indoctrinate me strong enough and I don’t shy away from uncomfortable ideas. Theism is the most cowardly possible position. It solves fear of death, lack of meaning and loneliness in one swoop. And all you have to do, is never face the logical questions about reality head on. Atheism is harder because you have to face the fact that you’re never seeing your loved ones again after death. That the people you care about are gone forever when their brains stop. That you’ll be gone forever when your brain stops. That you’re just a bag of chemicals that through luck has gotten a sliver of a tik of the cosmic clock to experience reality though consciousness. If you want meaning, you have to make it. That’s a rough reality to face, which is why theism is the easy choice. You just pretend your problems don’t exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/premiss-atheism-is-for-people-who-cant-handle-religion/609199.md?page=3)