# Prepositions at the end of a sentence? OK, per Strunk and White.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409 "2005-02-10T15:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![harry\_sgame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@harry\_sgame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harry_sgame)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/1 "2005-02-10T15:53:28Z")
One year ago, I was in a most taxing writing class. I was always tragically behind, and the professor terrified me, so I couldn’t ask a question that I had. My Strunk and White Elements of Style, (whatever edition that was current last year) said that prepositions at the end of a sentence wsere correct. Did I just imagine that? I threw out my S and W after the class was over. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/2 "2005-02-10T16:11:44Z")
Ending a sentence with a preposition is the craziest thing I ever heard of. You were right to throw that book out. It doesn’t know what it’s talking about. If you had followed those rules in your English class you probably would have failed and been left behind. After all, English grammar isn’t something to mess with. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/3 "2005-02-10T16:16:12Z")
Let’s say they’re not incorrect. Previous rules prohibiting them were based at least partially on Latin grammar, where a preposition’s object **must** follow the preposition. But English has its own character, and many constructions with the preposition at the end make perfect sense and flow nicely, whereas sometimes the contortions needed to not have the preposition at the end sound awkward and stilted. Examples: What’s that made of? _vs._ Of what is that made? Who(m) will it be given to? _vs._ To whom will it be given? A preposition is an awful thing to end a sentence with. _vs._ A prepostion is an awful thing with which to end a sentence. (Tongue in cheek, obviously.) That is something I will not put up with. _vs._ That is something up with which I will not put. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/4 "2005-02-10T16:18:44Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Ending a sentence with a preposition is the craziest thing I ever heard of. You were right to throw that book out. It doesn’t know what it’s talking about. If you had followed those rules in your English class you probably would have failed and been left behind. After all, English grammar isn’t something to mess with. Brilliant! 🙂 To quote Winston Churchill, “This [fictitious rule] is an impertinence up with which I will not put!” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/5 "2005-02-10T16:23:03Z")
And of course my favorite is what the little boy said to his father who was reading a night time story to him about Australian kangaroos. Daddy, why did you bring that book I didn’t want to be read to from about “Down Under” up for? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/6 "2005-02-10T16:23:19Z")
I don’t have a copy of _Elements of Style_ on hand right now, but [this website agrees with you](http://courses.lib.odu.edu/engl/jbing/~%24escriptivePaper.htm) > [@](#): > > Strunk and White (2000), considered conservative grammarians today, indicate that terminal prepositions are proper. The rule about terminal prepositions has long been regarded as silly. Many of S&W’s contemporaries, including Fowler, regarded this rule as silly. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/7 "2005-02-10T16:24:19Z")
There is not, and never has been, a rule of English that says you mustn’t end a sentence with a preposition. Many (perhaps most) people , however, are unable to distinguish between a preposition that’s been left dangling without its object, and one that’s part of a phrasal verb, or that’s modifying the subject of the sentence in a rhetorically satisfying way. That being the case, many English teachers of a certain era erred on the side of caution, and told students “never end a sentence with a preposition,” a safe rule since one can almost always find a way to rewrite a sentence to put a noun or verb at the end. **Captain Amazing** , for instance, has put together an entire post using only sentences which have prepositions at their ends, and only one of them is – well, not wrong, exactly, but stylistically undesirable. “You were right to throw that book out” really ought to be “you were right to throw out that book.” Rewriting the others would make them _more_ awkward, but this one is better with the preposition before its object. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/8 "2005-02-10T16:24:20Z")
That should end “as superstitious,” not “as silly.” ---
**Author:** ![harry\_sgame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@harry\_sgame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harry_sgame)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/9 "2005-02-10T16:37:26Z")
Thanks to all of you for your information. I would yet scorn Strunk and White, except for Fowler’s concurrence. If Fowler says it, it must be alright! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/10 "2005-02-10T16:42:11Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Daddy, why did you bring that book I didn’t want to be read to from about “Down Under” up for? …read to _out of_ about Down Under up for? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/11 "2005-02-10T16:48:57Z")
Note that, in most cases (even **Captain Amazing’s** example), the sentences are not ended with a preposition. They are ended with the particle of a phrasal verb (prepositions are commonly used as particles, which creates the confusion). The truth is that there are some verbs in the English language that are made up of two (or even three) words. Thus “to throw out” is a different verb than “to throw.” “To hear” is different than “to hear of” (though they’re close). “To Put,” “to put up” and “to put up with” are three different verbs. You’d be hard pressed to come up with a usage of a pure preposition at the end of the sentence that is not obviously incomplete ("\*He ate at." “\*She talked to.” “\*They traveled for.”). But that isn’t what people mean when they cite the rule. As far as awkward, using the particle at the end is usually the most natural way to phrase the sentence. “It’s a good restaurant to eat at” is certainly less stilted than “It’s a good restaurant at which to eat.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/12 "2005-02-10T17:01:19Z")
Here’s the quote from page 77 of my copy of Strunk and White _Not only is the prepostion acceptable at the end, sometimes it is more effective in that spot than anywhere else_ Here’s Bernstein on the rules about split infinitives and terminal prepositions: _many of which were designed more for easy teaching than better writing._ Montgomery and Stratton – \* Whether one word or a full clause, these modifiers [_words that affect the entire sentence] \* can usually be placed in front of the sentence, between the subject and verb when enclosed by commas, or after the verb._ ---
**Author:** ![Demo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demo/32/8472_2.png) [@Demo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/13 "2005-02-10T17:15:36Z")
FYI: Strunk and White’s Elements of Style is [available online](http://www.bartleby.com/141/) at [Bartleby.com](http://Bartleby.com). ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/14 "2005-02-10T19:32:10Z")
Old joke. So this guy from Texas is up at Harvard, touring the campus. He’s looking for the library…and asks a student" Scuze me…can you tell me where the library is at?" Harvard dude replies…“Here at Harvard, we don’t end our sentences with a preposition.” Texas dude replies…“Fine, can you tell me where the library is at, ASSHOLE?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/15 "2005-02-10T20:08:34Z")
> [@harry'sgame](#): > > Thanks to all of you for your information. I would yet scorn Strunk and White, except for Fowler’s concurrence. If Fowler says it, it must be alright! Strunk and White is accepted as a standard by a lot of American writers, editors, and teachers. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/16 "2005-02-10T20:13:13Z")
That Texas dude was an Aggie. I was going to post something like RealityChuck did, so let me just add to his. A more modern way at looking at some verbs in English is that you can make an intransitive verb into a phrase that functions as a transitive verb, by adding a preposition. Thus “walk” is intransitive (doesn’t take an object), but you can make it take an object by adding a preposition: He walked to the store. In the old-fashioned way of diagramming this sentence, “he” is the subject, “walked” is the verb, “to” is a preposition, and “the store” is the object of the preposition. In the more modern way of looking at it, “He” is still the subject, but “walked to” is the verb, and “the store” is the object of the verb. In this way, sentences don’t end in prepositions, but in words that are part of verbs. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/17 "2005-02-10T20:13:50Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Ending a sentence with a preposition is the craziest thing I ever heard of. You were right to throw that book out. It doesn’t know what it’s talking about. If you had followed those rules in your English class you probably would have failed and been left behind. After all, English grammar isn’t something to mess with. Tou·ché ---
**Author:** ![Roches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/18 "2005-02-10T20:22:14Z")
Since this thread appears to be mostly about jokes about ending sentences with prepositions, here’s my contribution, from the movie _Canadian Bacon_. (It’s been a while since I saw the movie, so it may not be exactly right.) An American has just crossed the Canadian border illegally, trying to invade. He encounters two Mounties. First Mountie: Go back where you came from! Second Mountie: You can’t do that! First Mountie: What? Second Mountie: You can’t end a sentence with a preposition. First Mountie: What should I have said? Second Mountie: You should have said “Go back from where you came”, or, in the proper Queen’s English, “Go back thou from whence thou didst come.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/19 "2005-02-10T20:51:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > To quote Winston Churchill, “This [fictitious rule] is an impertinence up with which I will not put!” Bastard! I knew someone would beat me to that quotation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409/20 "2005-02-10T21:13:48Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > And of course my favorite is what the little boy said to his father who was reading a night time story to him about Australian kangaroos. > > Daddy, why did you bring that book I didn’t want to be read to from about “Down Under” up for? To borrow a turn from beagledave… So then the father says, “Son, we don’t end our sentences with a preposition.” Kid replies, “Okay, then why did you bring that book I didn’t want to be read to out of from about “Down Under” up for, ASSWIPE?” 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prepositions-at-the-end-of-a-sentence-ok-per-strunk-and-white/289409.md?page=2)