# Pres Sez: "Not Leaving Iraq As Long as I'm President" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606 "2006-08-21T15:44:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/1 "2006-08-21T15:44:19Z")
[http://thinkprogress.org/](http://thinkprogress.org/) (Warning: Think Progress is a lefty site. Tighty Righty be advised: Shields Up!) Transcript: > [@](#): > > …The strategy is to help the Iraqi people achieve the objectives and dreams which is a democratic society. That’s the strategy. The tactics — now — either you say yes it’s important we stay there and get it done or we leave. We’re not leaving so long as I’m the president. That would be a huge mistake. It would send an unbelievably you know terrible signal to reformers across the region. It would say we’ve abandoned our desire to change the conditions that create terror… Note: this quote is from a morning press conference, at present no other cite is available, but no doubt will be. I trust this source enough to pass it along as is, if wrong, appropriate masses of crow may be served. Beyond that, offered without further comment, beyond to note the intense difficulty in not titling this thread “Prez Sez: Get 'Er Done!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/2 "2006-08-21T15:55:54Z")
I’ve been trying to tell you this for years, **elucidator**. You’re the one who kept saying Bush might to pull some political manuever like declaring victory and leaving. Bush is committed to stay in Iraq as long as it takes-- which may very well be forever (or, for him, until Jan '09). We already had his quote from several months ago about how it will be up to “future presidents” to determine when all the troops will be brought home. Have you not been following the news this year? I thought that Bush might try to bolster public opinion by announcing some symbolic troop withdrawls before the November election, but it doesn’t even look like that is going to happen now. The guy has blinders on, and is just going to charge ahead regardless of what anyone tells him or whatever the facts on the ground are. Sad as it is, we’re stuck with this goddam war that he took us into for no real reason at all. I don’t know what else to say… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/3 "2006-08-21T16:16:02Z")
**John** , what do you think would be the effect on Bush of losing control of both House and Senate to the Democrats? Could something like that dent the armor, or (more likely, I fear) just make him even more stubbornly determined to plow ahead? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/4 "2006-08-21T16:26:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Note: this quote is from a morning press conference, at present no other cite is available, but no doubt will be. I trust this source enough to pass it along as is, if wrong, appropriate masses of crow may be served. He’s been saying the same thing for rather a long time now. As John said, I thought (last year) he would at least try for some symbolic troop withdrawls…but he’s made it increasingly clear that he has no intention of backing down at this point as long as he’s president. If you are interested, [here](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/21/bush/index.html) is Bush saying leaving would be a disaster. He has pretty much been on this theme all year so this really isn’t news. > [@](#): > > Bush: Leaving Iraq now would be a ‘disaster’ > War ‘straining the psyche of our country,’ he says > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – Citing Iraq as a key example of U.S. resolve in “a global war” on terror, President Bush said Monday there would be no quick U.S. exit despite the strain of the war on American society. > [@](#): > > But defeat in Iraq is unacceptable, Bush said, because of the physical and psychological boosts it would give to terrorists… > > "A failed Iraq in the heart of the Middle East will provide safe haven for terrorists and extremists. It will embolden those who are trying to thwart the ambitions of reformers. > > “In this case, it would give the terrorists and extremists an additional tool besides safe haven, and that is revenues from oil sales,” the president said. blah blah blah. The long of the short of it though is I would frankly be surprised at this point if Bush does a reversal (unless forced somehow) and brings the troops home before his term is up. I’m QUITE miffed at this, as I had high hopes last year that we could extract our dick from the golf shoes this year…or maybe by early next year at the latest. -XT ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/5 "2006-08-21T16:36:44Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > **John** , what do you think would be the effect on Bush of losing control of both House and Senate to the Democrats? Could something like that dent the armor, or (more likely, I fear) just make him even more stubbornly determined to plow ahead? Unlikely as that scenario seems (I’m sure the GOP will lose seats in both houses, I just doubt the Democrats will gain control of either, let alone both), I think Bush would use every resource available to keep troops in Iraq. Nothing short of an actual piece of legislation revoking all Congressional support for the war will bring our troops home before Jan '09. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/6 "2006-08-21T16:47:21Z")
How the hell are we supposed to extricate ourselves? The region and our own national security would probably plunge even deeper into the shit if we did. I just can’t help but think that John Kerry was right about the Pottery Barn Principle - you break it, you fix it. (Except that obviously no store expects customers to repair items they break, and Pottery Barn doesn’t have a you break it, you buy it policy. So he was right, except for the whole Pottery Barn dealie.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/7 "2006-08-21T16:57:22Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > **John** , what do you think would be the effect on Bush of losing control of both House and Senate to the Democrats? Could something like that dent the armor, or (more likely, I fear) just make him even more stubbornly determined to plow ahead? I don’t think so. Even in the most optimistic scenario, the Dems will only have a razor thin majority, and there are still enough Democratic hawks that they couldn’t pass any legislation and if they tried, the Pubs could filibuster. I’m afraid we’re stuck. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/8 "2006-08-21T17:06:48Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > How the hell are we supposed to extricate ourselves? The region and our own national security would probably plunge even deeper into the shit if we did. I just can’t help but think that John Kerry was right about the Pottery Barn Principle - you break it, you fix it. (Except that obviously no store expects customers to repair items they break, and Pottery Barn doesn’t have a you break it, you buy it policy. So he was right, except for the whole Pottery Barn dealie.) I think you mean Colin Powell, not John Kerry. Not that Kerry didn’t say it at some point, but if he did, he was parroting Powell’s warning. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/9 "2006-08-21T17:09:21Z")
> [@whole bean](#): > > I think you mean Colin Powell, not John Kerry. Not that Kerry didn’t say it at some point, but if he did, he was parroting Powell’s warning. [the “Pottery Barn Rule”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery_Barn_rule) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/10 "2006-08-21T17:11:25Z")
> [@whole bean](#): > > I think you mean Colin Powell, not John Kerry. Not that Kerry didn’t say it at some point, but if he did, he was parroting Powell’s warning. And it also assumes that there is a way to fix it. Before we even got ourselves involved in this little adventure, I said the best outcome I could see would be a quasi-benign strongman coming to power who would be able to hold this powderkeg together. Maybe someone like Musharif of Pakistan. I suspect that is what will happen once we leave. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/11 "2006-08-21T17:18:43Z")
> [@whole bean](#): > > I think you mean Colin Powell, not John Kerry. Not that Kerry didn’t say it at some point, but if he did, he was parroting Powell’s warning. The only problem with this rule for Iraq is that we’re still breaking it. If you let a bull in a china shop, you get the bull out of there before you start repairs. (Call that Voyager’s corollary. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/12 "2006-08-21T17:25:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > And it also assumes that there is a way to fix it. Which is why Powell’s rule, and not Kerry’s misstatement of the same, was actually a very good WARNING. You break it, you OWN it, whether it can be fixed or not. I await signs that this administration is actually taking ownership of the problem, rather than explaining it away with platitiudes and asuring us that “staying the course” is what it takes to get “mission accomplished.” What do I mean by “taking ownership”? Well, pay for it for one, and if that means passing unpopular tax legislation, then that is what it means, and if that means sending twice as many troops, then that’s what it means. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/13 "2006-08-21T17:29:09Z")
Well, why wouldn’t he want to stay? Things are going rather well there at the moment. [Morgue body count highlights Iraq bloodshed](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10395546) > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD - **Almost 2,000 bodies were taken to Baghdad’s morgue in July, the highest tally in five months of rising sectarian bloodshed which has forced the United States to boost troop levels in the capital to head off a civil war.** > > Morgue assistant manager Doctor Abdul Razzaq al-Obaidi said today that about 90 per cent had died violently. > > “Most of the cases have gunshot wounds to the head. Some of them were strangled and others were beaten to death with clubs,” he told Reuters. - bolding mine. Womders what 2,000 sectarian deaths in ONE month are called. Other than a “civil war” of course – that’s obviously forbidden I mean, thanks Og for that little skirmish between the Israelis and Hizbollah. Otherwise the American media would be forced to keep Bush’s Iraq clusterfuck as frontpage news. Bummer. No Way Out. Too bad they already used that title on another movie, 'cause it would have been perfect for this one. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/14 "2006-08-21T17:33:44Z")
the other day, I heard talk show blow hard Neal Boortz say that two things were responsible for the debacle that is Iraq – 1). Bush’s failures (I was stunned); and, 2) liberal crticism of the war (WTmotherF!). How do you fucking figure? The way I see it, the existence of #1 mandates #2, but maybe there is something to this line of thought. I think I’ll try to to fly without any mechanical assistance – I’ll jump from my roof and flap my arms. My wife is sure to protest – she’ll probably tell me that I relied on bad information when I arrived at my conclusion that I was capable of unaided flight . When I break my neck as a result of the fall, I’ll blame her – hell have her arrested for battery – for her failure to support my plan. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/15 "2006-08-21T17:56:19Z")
How would you like to be an Army recruiter right now? Trying to get young people to go to Iraq to die in a war that’s already lost - it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure! Of course, Bush doesn’t seem to be bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/16 "2006-08-21T18:13:48Z")
> [@whole bean](#): > > I think you mean Colin Powell, not John Kerry. Not that Kerry didn’t say it at some point, but if he did, he was parroting Powell’s warning. And as your link shows, that’s the case. Thanks for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/17 "2006-08-21T18:16:02Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > How would you like to be an Army recruiter right now? Trying to get young people to go to Iraq to die in a war that’s already lost - it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure! Of course, Bush doesn’t seem to be bothered by it. [funny you should mention that](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14434936/) some seem to have found another recruiting “tool”. :rolleyes: (from the “when you thought it couldn’t get worse” department) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/18 "2006-08-21T18:45:52Z")
There’s another reason for not leaving Iraq any time soon, that I haven’t seen discussed much. If the US pulls out, civil war ensues. We know that. But, what goes unmentioned is that Iran is lurking on the sidelines. Once we’re out, they let all sides in Iraq wear each other down a bit, then they come marching in, possibly at the manufactured “request” of one of the factions, and Iran then annexes what used to be Iraq. Thus is an Islamic Superstate created. Syria would jump for joy, and be a staunch ally. The military capability of this new “Superstate” remains 2nd rate at best for the time being, but they have enormous resources–more oil than they can sell and use, money to buy anything on the market, possibly including radioactive items not ordinarily on the market. Invading Iraq was a stupid decision. Now that we’re there, how the hell do we get out without making things worse than they were before? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/19 "2006-08-21T18:50:26Z")
> [@wring](#): > > [funny you should mention that](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14434936/) some seem to have found another recruiting “tool”. :rolleyes: > > (from the “when you thought it couldn’t get worse” department) Ugg. This needs a Pit thread all its own. “Lapse in judgment.” WTF? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606/20 "2006-08-21T19:30:39Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > How would you like to be an Army recruiter right now? Trying to get young people to go to Iraq to die in a war that’s already lost - it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure! Of course, Bush doesn’t seem to be bothered by it. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/19/national/main1913849.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/19/national/main1913849.shtml) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pres-sez-not-leaving-iraq-as-long-as-im-president/369606.md?page=2)