# Present evidence for the existence of your deity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737 "2012-04-23T19:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/181 "2012-04-24T17:19:02Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > God didn’t give me these problems. These are events that defy scientific explanation. The atheist is only left to scramble and resort to the default explanation, “oh that person must be a liar!” Your examples of suffering are exactly what we would expect if no god exists, so no, they don’t defy scientific explanation. We’re still waiting for your proof beyond your fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/182 "2012-04-24T17:19:52Z")
Could we please take the Flood veracity angle to another thread? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/183 "2012-04-24T17:20:32Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, you can. There is a giant octopus in your wallet. Go check. We’ll wait. > . . . . How in P’nath did that get there? (I’m sure I left the house with two squids and a few scallops.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/184 "2012-04-24T17:25:24Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > Quantum physics is the essence of possibilities. Every object is not a determined thing, but consists of possibilities for consciousness to choose from. Again, no, quantum physics doesn’t say anything like that. Please read some actual quantum physics instead of quantum-physics-inspired philosophizing. It sounds like you’re confusing concepts like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle with… I don’t know what. It’s true that light sometimes acts like a particle and sometimes acts like a wave, and it’s true that we can either know a particle’s position or its velocity but not both. It’s not true that everything is nothing but possibilities for consciousness to choose from. That doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/185 "2012-04-24T17:25:30Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > How in P’nath did that get there? > > (I’m sure I left the house with two squids and a few scallops.) ..and some despair change? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/186 "2012-04-24T17:29:58Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes yes, atheists are out to get you and one is hiding under your bed right this instant! > Of course you are, yet again (of course) trying to change the subject when you’re shown to be wrong and refusing to address yet another factual rebuttal. As pointed out, AiG’s description is false. Further, even was it not, having a local flood in the Grand Canyon would not, in fact, be proof for a global flood. > > Truly pathetically, now you’re reduced to claiming that since many cultures have _different_ stories of floods, the fact that you see “striking similarities” with the Bible meant that we should come to… some conclusion or another. Why we shouldn’t figure that the Babylonian flood is the true proto-narrative and the rest are just glomming onto it is anybody’s guess, except of course it’s clear that you’re gaming the system. Or trying to. > > Of course, the fact that many cultures have flood myths is not evidence that there was a global flood any more than polytheistic myths are proof that there are numerous, incarnate gods and goddesses who regularly visit the Earth. It is evidence that many cultures have flood myths, of course, not that you’re performing an honest analysis of that fact. Of course. Excuse me, but atheists are the ones who changed the subject. I have no desire to get back into the global flood thing again. THis post was about showing my personal reasons for believing in God. I said you would reject them. Made my case. You rejected it. Score! And I’ve covered this already. The cultural stories have striking similarities. The athiest can only explain this as common mythological elements in any flood story or this culture ripped off Epic of Gilgamesh. Flood stories sharing elements with the Bible are as far away as South America. Did someone fax them a copy? Furthermore, I doubt that the Bible’s account fits in the myth mold as it contains specific details like the boat’s dimensions. Funny how atheists keep always coming back to the Flood story as if it is the lynch pin on which the entire Bible rests. Why not debate a story like Joseph or King David? It’s a bold statement to claim that the Bible is a work of fiction. How about backing that claim up for once? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/187 "2012-04-24T17:33:12Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Funny how atheists keep always coming back to the Flood story as if it is the lynch pin on which the entire Bible rests. Why not debate a story like Joseph or King David? It’s a bold statement to claim that the Bible is a work of fiction. How about backing that claim up for once? Once again, could we please take the Flood argument to another thread? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/188 "2012-04-24T17:36:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Your examples of suffering are exactly what we would expect if no god exists, so no, they don’t defy scientific explanation. We’re still waiting for your proof beyond your fantasies. I’m waiting for proof to demonstrate that my real life experiences were just fantasies. The best your side could offer is that Doyle Dykes is a liar. Pathetic. Extremely pathetic. The fact that amazing stories of healing and spiritual encounters doesn’t phase you only serves to demonsrate just how close minded atheists really are. What do you require for evidence anyways? Only what you experience with your senses? Even the movie, the Matrix, punched a hole in that line of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/189 "2012-04-24T17:41:14Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > And I’ve covered this already. The cultural stories have striking similarities. The athiest can only explain this as common mythological elements in any flood story or this culture ripped off Epic of Gilgamesh. Flood stories sharing elements with the Bible are as far away as South America. Did someone fax them a copy? Furthermore, I doubt that the Bible’s account fits in the myth mold as it contains specific details like the boat’s dimensions. Elements such as what? The idea that the world was flooded? Also, containing the boats dimensions does not shatter the myth mold. [Gilgamesh’s myth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth#Building_and_launching_the_boat) had specific details of the boats dimensions: > [@](#): > > 1. Carpenters, reed workers, and other people assembled one morning. > 2. [missing lines] > 3. Five days later, Utnapishtim laid out the exterior walls of the boat of 120 cubits. > 4. The sides of the superstructure had equal lengths of 120 cubits. He also made a drawing of the interior structure. > 5. The boat had six decks [?] divided into seven and nine compartments. > 6. Water plugs were driven into the middle part. > 7. Punting poles and other necessary things were laid in. > 8. Three times 3,600 units of raw bitumen were melted in a kiln and three times 3,600 units of oil were used in addition to two times 3,600 units of oil that were stored in the boat. > 9. Oxen and sheep were slaughtered and ale, beer, oil, and wine were distributed to the workmen, like at a new year’s festival. > 10. When the boat was finished, the launching was very difficult. A runway of poles was used to slide the boat into the water. > 11. Two-thirds of the boat were in the water. > 12. Utnapishtim loaded his silver and gold into the boat. > 13. He loaded “all the living beings that I had.” > 14. His relatives and craftsmen, and “all the beasts and animals of the field” boarded the boat. > 15. The time arrived, as stated by the god Shamash, to seal the entry door. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Funny how atheists keep always coming back to the Flood story as if it is the lynch pin on which the entire Bible rests. Why not debate a story like Joseph or King David? It’s a bold statement to claim that the Bible is a work of fiction. How about backing that claim up for once? I’m not really interested in the flood - I don’t think it’s remotely plausable, but even supposing it did occur, that doesn’t show that your specific God was the originator of it. ---
**Author:** ![TravisT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TravisT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisT)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/190 "2012-04-24T17:45:12Z")
As an agnostic I take the position that I don’t know, but neither do you. But I’m open minded enough to allow for the possibility of there being much much more to reality and understanding that we currently know. Atheists can be just as devout as fundamentalists in their close-mindedness. Don’t be so arrogant to assume you have all the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/191 "2012-04-24T17:45:55Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I’m waiting for proof to demonstrate that my real life experiences were just fantasies. This is a really unstable road for you to go down. What makes your revelations/experiences any more convincing than Andrea Yates’? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > The best your side could offer is that Doyle Dykes is a liar. Pathetic. Extremely pathetic. The fact that amazing stories of healing and spiritual encounters doesn’t phase you only serves to demonsrate just how close minded atheists really are. The problem with this line of reasoning is that: 1. We know that ‘healings’ can be faked. 2. Healings can also occur psychosomatically. 3. Healings do not only occur with one religion. I don’t know the specifics of Doyle Dykes, so I have to refrain from speculating in his case. I can say that the extraordinary nature of his abilities make me skeptical - I don’t see why one should automatically accept miraculous tales (or even highly improbable ones) without looking into it. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > What do you require for evidence anyways? Only what you experience with your senses? Even the movie, the Matrix, punched a hole in that line of thinking. You weren’t talking to me, but I would have to say that it all depends on the claims made by the particular religion. I see no reason to differentiate the Gospel accounts from other ancient tales of miracles, for instance, so I would need very compelling evidence that showed they were true. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/192 "2012-04-24T17:46:48Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > There are plenty of ways I could become a believer in a deity, as an atheist. I am not dead-set against the idea of God having created everything. > > If we found some code somewhere in genetics that had a secret message from our creator, I’d become a believer (after it was verified and tested of course). > > snip:D Some people claim that God’s name is written in Hebrew in our DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/193 "2012-04-24T17:47:57Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > As an agnostic I take the position that I don’t know, but neither do you. But I’m open minded enough to allow for the possibility of there being much much more to reality and understanding that we currently know. Atheists can be just as devout as fundamentalists in their close-mindedness. Don’t be so arrogant to assume you have all the answers. That’s odd, I’m an atheist and I admit that I don’t know and I allow for the possibility of there being much more to reality than we currently know. I just don’t find any particular religion or God believable, which is why I’m an atheist. You say you don’t know whether God exists or not, are you an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist? That is to say, do you believe in God despite not having evidence or do you disbelieve in God because there is no evidence? ---
**Author:** ![TravisT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TravisT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisT)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/194 "2012-04-24T17:48:18Z")
I also agree that the flood is another thread. The Bible is another thread. Just because we can disprove the Bible (easily done) doesn’t mean we can disprove the existence of some form of god or designer. Again, I say disprove the existence of God! I challenge you. It is all faith, whether you have faith that there is no god or you have faith there is. Both viewpoints are devout and blind to futher possibilities. History is full of people declaring things as certainties and being proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/195 "2012-04-24T17:49:19Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > As an agnostic I take the position that I don’t know, but neither do you. But I’m open minded enough to allow for the possibility of there being much much more to reality and understanding that we currently know. Atheists can be just as devout as fundamentalists in their close-mindedness. Don’t be so arrogant to assume you have all the answers. Please provide a cite for any atheist that has claimed to know all the answers. Just one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/196 "2012-04-24T17:49:42Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > History is full of people declaring things as certainties and being proven wrong. For example, we have many full threads of people erroneously declaring they know what atheists think and what they have “faith” in. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/197 "2012-04-24T17:51:07Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > I also agree that the flood is another thread. The Bible is another thread. Just because we can disprove the Bible (easily done) doesn’t mean we can disprove the existence of some form of god or designer. Again, I say disprove the existence of God! I challenge you. It is all faith, whether you have faith that there is no god or you have faith there is. Both viewpoints are devout and blind to futher possibilities. History is full of people declaring things as certainties and being proven wrong. I find your position puzzling. You are acting as though all atheists are strong/positive atheists and that agnosticism is some sort of ‘middle ground’. Agnosticism answers a completely different question than ‘do you believe in god’. It answers the question of whether one knows god exists or not. You can ‘have faith’ while not knowing god exists, you realize? Most atheists would be what is considered an agnostic atheist, something you don’t seem to consider. ---
**Author:** ![TravisT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TravisT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisT)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/198 "2012-04-24T17:51:30Z")
I suppose I’m an optomist in that I say I allow for there the existence of god. So I’m an agnostic theist. A practicing agnostic? I say the evidence isn’t all in yet. Why state anything for certain? I know there are subtlties that can not be explained in the universe. Not yet. I still think the fact that mathmatics can explain the universe is suggestive of something more going on than random chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/199 "2012-04-24T17:52:22Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > I also agree that the flood is another thread. The Bible is another thread. Just because we can disprove the Bible (easily done) doesn’t mean we can disprove the existence of some form of god or designer. Again, I say disprove the existence of God! I challenge you. It is all faith, whether you have faith that there is no god or you have faith there is. Both viewpoints are devout and blind to futher possibilities. History is full of people declaring things as certainties and being proven wrong. [Head slamming into table]_Bang!_[/Head slamming into table] This thread ins’t about atheists disproving the Bible. This thread is for religionists to display any evidence they may have as to the existence of their deity of choice. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/200 "2012-04-24T17:52:47Z")
> [@TravisT](#): > > I suppose I’m an optomist in that I say I allow for there the existence of god. So I’m an agnostic theist. A practicing agnostic? I say the evidence isn’t all in yet. Why state anything for certain? I know there are subtlties that can not be explained in the universe. Not yet. I still think the fact that mathmatics can explain the universe is suggestive of something more going on than random chaos. I don’t see the question as being an optomistic/pessimistic one, but fair enough. I don’t understand why you would ascribe certainty to people asking for evidence/reasons to believe in god before they ascent to the belief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=11)