# Present evidence for the existence of your deity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737 "2012-04-23T19:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/321 "2012-04-25T15:06:28Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > However, to clarify, are you saying that you think all of the Bible actually **is** fiction? Or just that we should treat it all as potential fiction? I think **GEEPERS** and I discussed this yesterday. I’ll explain it again if you think that’s necessary, but in the meantime I think that if I do, I won’t get an answer to what I actually said in post #310 this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/322 "2012-04-25T15:08:17Z")
> [@blinkie](#): > > My wife, my children and all the little angels God has sent to me to deal with being a tetraplegic. That’s sweet…but it doesn’t really address the question. How is this evidence that supports the existence of the deity you believe in, and not some other benevolent deity? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/323 "2012-04-25T15:11:55Z")
> [@blinkie](#): > > My wife, my children and all the little angels God has sent to me to deal with being a tetraplegic. I’m glad you’ve found happiness. But wouldn’t it be simpler for God to heal you? And how do you know that God didn’t decide to torture you and you rose above it? Stephen Hawking is in a similar condition, but he is an atheist. Is that evidence that there is no God? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/324 "2012-04-25T15:23:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think **GEEPERS** and I discussed this yesterday. I’ll explain it again if you think that’s necessary, but in the meantime I think that if I do, I won’t get an answer to what I actually said in post #310 this morning. Fair enough. I’m not sure it is necessary. What I see happening is that Geepers makes some claims, those claims are questioned, and then he moves on to new claims (while not responding to the original questioning). ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/325 "2012-04-25T16:10:59Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > You are misinterpreting him fairly badly. He said it’s **possible** it’s all fiction, he did not say that **he thought it was**. I never said that he was claiming that the Bible was all fiction. Regardless, it came across as a reversal from his previous position. I believe a more honest position is that atheists NEED the Bible to be a work of fiction. > [@Meatros](#): > > This is a statement of faith. What, I take it on faith that archeaology supports the Bible? I guess the scholars could be lying, but I’m sure the skeptics would be on them like white on rice if they tried to fake Bible evidence. > [@Meatros](#): > > Real names and places - this is disputable - there is some evidence to suggest that characters such as Lazarus and Barabbas were invented. Right so the Bible doesn’t contain real names and places. Umm ok, archaeology says otherwise. > [@Meatros](#): > > But aside from that - real names and places do not mean that the miracles occurred (do you believe Vespasian did miracles?). > Archaeological finds do not support the Bible’s narrative in all cases - this has been brought up already (flood, exodus). So now scholars must discover finds that support every single story in the Bible or it’s all a work of fiction? And if it is semi-fictional, one must wonder why the story was fabricated. Funny skeptics never do that. Even more funny, why would these fiction writers create Bible heroes so flawed and even despicable? Even the great King David is shown in all his sinful nature. The guy actually had an innocent loyal soldier murdered so he could have sex with his wife. Not a flattering portrayal of someone that you want recorded as the King of Israel. Another problem with finding extra-biblical texts of the Exodus is that rulers like the Egyptians didn’t like to record embarrassing defeats. A race of slaves bending the will of Pharoh? Umm, no didn’t happen. Kings wanted to be painted in the best light possible especially in Egypt where rulers were seen as gods. Lack of evidence does not prove that the flood or Exodus never occured. It just means there is a lack of evidence. There are limitations on what you can prove with ancient events. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/326 "2012-04-25T16:23:48Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I never said that he was claiming that the Bible was all fiction. Regardless, it came across as a reversal from his previous position. I believe a more honest position is that atheists NEED the Bible to be a work of fiction. You have it exactly backwards. You need the bible to be accurate, because you’re basing your life on it. But an atheist looks at the data and draws a conclusion from that. I asked you earlier, and you ignored it, is the Bhagavad Gita supernatural? Do you assume that its supernatural claims are true? > [@](#): > > What, I take it on faith that archeaology supports the Bible? I guess the scholars could be lying, but I’m sure the skeptics would be on them like white on rice if they tried to fake Bible evidence. The scholars who state that the supernatural stories in the bible are true, are in the vast minority. And people like you, who really, really want it to be true are the reason it has any traction at all. > [@](#): > > Right so the Bible doesn’t contain real names and places. Umm ok, archaeology says otherwise. You’re not being fair there. He said that some names and places aren’t actual areas. > [@](#): > > So now scholars must discover finds that support every single story in the Bible or it’s all a work of fiction? No one said that. You’re not honestly representing his comments. The bible is largely fictional, in that the supernatural elements didn’t happen. But it takes place in the world that the primitive writers knew. > [@](#): > > And if it is semi-fictional, one must wonder why the story was fabricated. You believe that every other holy book on Earth was fabricated, right? Why are you unable to imagine why one more might be? > [@](#): > > Funny skeptics never do that. Even more funny, why would these fiction writers create Bible heroes so flawed and even despicable? Even the great King David is shown in all his sinful nature. The guy actually had an innocent loyal soldier murdered so he could have sex with his wife. Not a flattering portrayal of someone that you want recorded as the King of Israel. Primitive people do shitty things. Which is why using the bible as a source for morality is laughable. > [@](#): > > Another problem with finding extra-biblical texts of the Exodus is that rulers like the Egyptians didn’t like to record embarrassing defeats. A race of slaves bending the will of Pharoh? Umm, no didn’t happen. Kings wanted to be painted in the best light possible especially in Egypt where rulers were seen as gods. We know that that the Exodus didn’t happen because the Jews weren’t there. You can’t escape from a prison you’re not in. > [@](#): > > Lack of evidence does not prove that the flood or Exodus never occured. It just means there is a lack of evidence. There are limitations on what you can prove with ancient events. The flood would leave world wide telltale geological evidence. It not being there means the flood didn’t happen. If I’m dead on the ground and you say I was shot, and there are no bullet holes in my body, it means you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/327 "2012-04-25T16:27:21Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Regardless, it came across as a reversal from his previous position. It wasn’t. Now, before you get too busy strawmanning **Meatros** ’s position, will you please address the substance of what I wrote? ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/328 "2012-04-25T16:33:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It wasn’t. Now, before you get too busy strawmanning **Meatros** ’s position, will you please address the substance of what I wrote? Which post are you refering to? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/329 "2012-04-25T16:39:51Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Which post are you refering to? This one: > [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it’s all possible fiction - it may not be true. It has to be supported by evidence and potentially revised when it’s contradicted by better evidence. Only then is it going to be widely accepted. I get the sense you think everybody else so blinded by bias against you that they can’t compose an argument or think through what they are saying. Historical documents of all kinds have to be examined and backed up by other sources. Do you agree with this? The idea is that _all_ historical assertions need to be supported by other evidence such as independent sources and archeology. If so, is there are a reason the Bible should be treated differently - for example items like the Genesis story and the genealogy of Jesus should be taken as factual even though the Biblical accounts are contradictory? Should Exodus should be taken as factual despite the lack of expected historical evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/330 "2012-04-25T16:43:16Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I never said that he was claiming that the Bible was all fiction. Regardless, it came across as a reversal from his previous position. I believe a more honest position is that atheists NEED the Bible to be a work of fiction. You seem to have some rather unfair views of atheists. I do not need the Bible to be a work of fiction - I wish to follow the truth where ever it goes. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > What, I take it on faith that archeaology supports the Bible? I guess the scholars could be lying, but I’m sure the skeptics would be on them like white on rice if they tried to fake Bible evidence. Yes, I believe you do take it on faith that archeology always supports the Bible. There is clear evidence that it does not. This has been pointed out to you. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Right so the Bible doesn’t contain real names and places. Umm ok, archaeology says otherwise. It’s not all or nothing as you are implying. I pointed out two figures who’s existence is very much in contention. You **assert** otherwise. Let’s explore this further, can you show that A&E really existed? How about Abraham? Moses? Does archeology support their existence? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > So now scholars must discover finds that support every single story in the Bible or it’s all a work of fiction? Again, it’s not all or nothing - you are suggesting it is though when you suggest that archeology always supports the Bible. That claim does not hold water. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > And if it is semi-fictional, one must wonder why the story was fabricated. It’s not the case that it’s either true or a lie. It could be misremembered, confabulated, the result of hallucinations, etc, etc. Are urban legends always lies? Are they always truth? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Funny skeptics never do that. I just gave several reasons why the stories could be false. Perhaps you do not fully read what the skeptics say? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Even more funny, why would these fiction writers create Bible heroes so flawed and even despicable? This assumes they knowingly wrote lies - which I am not supposing. Why were the Greek heroes/Gods flawed? Your logic indicates that those stories must be true. Zeus and the pantheon must exist because they participated in morally reprehensible actions. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Even the great King David is shown in all his sinful nature. The guy actually had an innocent loyal soldier murdered so he could have sex with his wife. Not a flattering portrayal of someone that you want recorded as the King of Israel. Lancelot sleeps with Guinevere, does that mean he existed? Does that mean all the myths revolving around him were true? > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Another problem with finding extra-biblical texts of the Exodus is that rulers like the Egyptians didn’t like to record embarrassing defeats. A race of slaves bending the will of Pharoh? Umm, no didn’t happen. Kings wanted to be painted in the best light possible especially in Egypt where rulers were seen as gods. This is absurd on the face of it - are we to believe they erased everything related to Israelite slavery? When they were trying to ‘erase’ the influence of Pharoahs, we still found their statues. We found [their attempts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut#Changing_recognition) to ‘erase’ the history. > [@](#): > > Toward the end of the reign of Thutmose III and into the reign of his son, an attempt was made to remove Hatshepsut from certain historical and pharaonic records. This elimination was carried out in the most literal way possible. Her cartouches and images were chiselled off some stone walls, leaving very obvious Hatshepsut-shaped gaps in the artwork. We find nothing about slavery of the Jews. No scratched out inscriptions, nothing. There are no archeological finds that suggest that they existed, [from here](http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Exodus#Historical_Objections): > [@](#): > > There is no historical or archaeological reference to Moses (or his Brother, Aaron), a mass exodus, Egyptian armies being drowned in the Red Sea, or mass plagues destroying the populace. In the case of the ten plagues, these alone would have been enough to completely cripple Egypt economically for decades, if not centuries. Considering that all the fish would be dead due to the rivers changing to blood, all the cattle died, (then got sick, smitten with hail, and then died again with the firstborn) all their crops were eaten by locusts, the army was killed, and most of the children died. They would have had no meat, no crops, no army, and no leader. The fact that there are no historical records outside of the Bible of such devastation is quite telling. > > Since Pharaoh was likely the firstborn child in his own household, then he should have also died in the Tenth Plague. The death of a Pharaoh due to such unusual circumstances would surely have been noted in historical records. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Lack of evidence does not prove that the flood or Exodus never occured. It just means there is a lack of evidence. There are limitations on what you can prove with ancient events. What it means is that archeology does not support the Bible. Further, when evidence is expected (as is the case with the Exodus) and it’s not found, that does mean that we have reason to reject it, from an archeological point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/331 "2012-04-25T16:48:39Z")
I had to retract something from the above which I had misread, hence the editing. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/332 "2012-04-25T17:06:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You have it exactly backwards. You need the bible to be accurate, because you’re basing your life on it. But an atheist looks at the data and draws a conclusion from that. Nonsense, a living God threatens your way of life. You need it to be false. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I asked you earlier, and you ignored it, is the Bhagavad Gita supernatural? Do you assume that its supernatural claims are true? I’m not familar with the text so I can not offer a response. > [@Lobohan](#): > > The scholars who state that the supernatural stories in the bible are true, are in the vast minority. And people like you, who really, really want it to be true are the reason it has any traction at all. And those scholars have noted that there is an extreme biased in their fields against Christianity and the Bible. Many of the scholars are working hard to disprove the Bible, but fail every time. But even if you revealed the Bible has fiction, it would not be a deathblow to my faith. I know God is real because of my life experiences. > [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re not being fair there. He said that some names and places aren’t actual areas. Well give an example then. > [@Lobohan](#): > > No one said that. You’re not honestly representing his comments. The bible is largely fictional, in that the supernatural elements didn’t happen. But it takes place in the world that the primitive writers knew. Where is your proof that the supernatural elements never occured? That’s a good portion of the Bible that is non-supernatural as well. > [@Lobohan](#): > > You believe that every other holy book on Earth was fabricated, right? Why are you unable to imagine why one more might be? I don’t see people being healed, saved, lives transformed with other religions. Most of it is engrained in the culture and follows strict rituals. That’s smacks of something man-made. Yet Christianity does not simply work by performing a physical action. Christianity is about forming a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. One way to create power and control over people is to invent religion and have them perform specific actions. You see this today with cults. Christianity is nothing like that. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Primitive people do shitty things. Which is why using the bible as a source for morality is laughable. I take it that you never read the Bible. Every human being does shitty things. The Bible is merely offering an honest recording of what really happened. Despite their flaws, they often find redemption. > [@Lobohan](#): > > We know that that the Exodus didn’t happen because the Jews weren’t there. You can’t escape from a prison you’re not in. Again, lack of evidence is not concrete proof that the Jews were never in Egypt. There is still many sites that have not been excavated or surveyed. And there is certainly evidence for the destruction of Jericho which occured not long after the Exodus. > [@Lobohan](#): > > The flood would leave world wide telltale geological evidence. It not being there means the flood didn’t happen. You are assuming that the geology of the earth was exactly the same as it is today. I’m sure life was quite a bit different during the ice age compared to present day. At any rate, I’m not an expert in geology so no point really going there with me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/333 "2012-04-25T17:13:05Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Nonsense, a living God threatens your way of life. You need it to be false. My “way of life”? Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/334 "2012-04-25T17:23:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Nonsense, a living God threatens your way of life. You need it to be false. Again, it’s evident you don’t understand anything about atheists despite your constant string of complaints and sarcastic comments. If he’s an atheist, he already thinks the basics of the Bible are false. He’s not desperate to disprove the Bible to justify his position as an atheist. > [@](#): > > And those scholars have noted that there is an extreme biased in their fields against Christianity and the Bible. Yes, we already know that literalist Christians are experts in complaining about bias from atheists. Unfortunately a lot of those people are happy to lie about what they’re discovered and the biases against them. > [@](#): > > But even if you revealed the Bible has fiction That’s already been demonstrated there are parts of the Bible that are inaccurate. > [@](#): > > I know God is real because of my life experiences. Then why do you keep insisting that everything in the Bible is factual? It’s plain to see that’s not true and you’ve just said it doesn’t matter anyway, so why not acknowledge the errors? > [@](#): > > I don’t see people being healed, saved, lives transformed with other religions. I don’t think you have any familiarity with other religions. Yes, just about any religion can change a person’s life, and people in many religions refer to that as being saved. Other religions may not emphasize the personal relationship with god the way Christianity does, but a lot of the basics are the same. You don’t have to do a lot of Googling to find people talking about being saved by other religions. > [@](#): > > Again, lack of evidence is not concrete proof that the Jews were never in Egypt. There’s no evidence that a tribe of thousands of people were in Egypt or the Sinai peninsula for decades and decades. That’s a very strong indication they were never there. > [@](#): > > You are assuming that the geology of the earth was exactly the same as it is today. What’s your background in geology? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/335 "2012-04-25T17:47:54Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Nonsense, a living God threatens your way of life. You need it to be false. ??? What exactly do you mean by this? The only difference in my life that I could see it possibly making is that I would believe in said God. Otherwise, I don’t think my life would change all that much. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Where is your proof that the supernatural elements never occured? That’s a good portion of the Bible that is non-supernatural as well. Fairly obvious example of begging the question. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > I don’t see people being healed, saved, lives transformed with other religions. Most of it is engrained in the culture and follows strict rituals. That’s smacks of something man-made. Yet Christianity does not simply work by performing a physical action. Christianity is about forming a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. One way to create power and control over people is to invent religion and have them perform specific actions. You see this today with cults. Christianity is nothing like that. Then you don’t investigate other religions very closely. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > Again, lack of evidence is not concrete proof that the Jews were never in Egypt. Even you have to see that this is silly. What would evidence of Jews never having a mass exodus or being slaves look like? Do you think we should find some Egyptian engravings that state ‘many centuries in the future the Hebrews are going to say that we made them slaves…These Hebrews are obviously deluding themselves…’. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > You are assuming that the geology of the earth was exactly the same as it is today. Trying to have it both ways - sure we could assume the world was created magically last tuesday, just as we could assume the world was magically flooded, we have no actual credible evidence to believe either of those things though and evidence to believe they didn’t happen (brought up earlier in this thread which you ignored). ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/336 "2012-04-25T19:25:23Z")
Check out D.6. from this creationist site: > **[About Us](https://creation.com/about-us)** > > Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation. 6.By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information. * * * Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/337 "2012-04-25T19:35:25Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Check out D.6. from this creationist site: > > [About · Creation.com](http://creation.com/about-us) > > 6.By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information. > > * * * > > Wow. O\_o One odd thing is that if that’s true, that man’s interpretation is fallible then how can we claim what the Scriptural record actually is? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/338 "2012-04-25T20:28:46Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > My heart just stopped beating for a few seconds. > What a beauty she turned out to be! Sorry, but Emma Watson still looks like a young Jeremy Irons in drag. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![blinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@blinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkie)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/339 "2012-04-25T21:08:51Z")
First I don’t believe most of what’s in the Bible. Second, the fact that I believe that there is one creator for all of mankind shouldn’t threaten you, the God I believe in loves you whether you believe in him. Why doesn’t he cure me? Who knows, while he’s at it why doesn’t he make me a millionaire? I’ve only met him once. It was when 5 doctors declared me legally dead. Next time I meet Him I’ll ask. That is if I get my voice back. I’m glad you think it’s “sweet.” Taking care of a totally paralyzed person is anything but sweet. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/340 "2012-04-25T21:10:16Z")
> [@Dropzone](#): > > Sorry, but Emma Watson still looks like a young Jeremy Irons in drag. Infidel! > [@Meatros](#): > > What exactly do you mean by this? I’m guessing he thinks that secularism is an invention to excuse sinful behaviour, rather than sinful behaviour being assessed on moral grounds once secularism is assumed. Since Biblical literalism is a requisite of believing in God, such an argument is very powerful. Otherwise we wouldn’t see such a preponderance of Christians cutting off the hand that causes them to sin, refusing to give alms or pray in public and donating all their money to the poor. At any rate, I think “atheist” is the wrong nomenclature. “Anti-theists” are those that would reject Christian dogma even if incontrovertible evidence demonstrated its veracity, purely on personal grounds. I doubt many atheists would also fall into the “anti-theist” camp, given the allure of eternal bliss… It would be rather tough to give up on lusting after Emma in one’s own heart though. As for whether religions other than Christianity claim miracles: surprisingly few do as far as I’m aware (due to how easily they can be [debunked](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y)). There are those [Spiritualist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_surgery) ones though… Not to mention the claims of Scientology to treat addictions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=18)