# Present evidence for the existence of your deity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737 "2012-04-23T19:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/61 "2012-04-24T10:50:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is this evidence of your deity, and no other? And isn’t it rather convenient that the evidence tends to follow what that person’s parents thought was evidence enough for them, too? Seldom do people start wearing silly headgear unless their parents wear the same stuff,..or are part of a fraternity. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/62 "2012-04-24T13:06:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For all those who say things like this: > this is the thread to present your evidence. Well I said personal experiences. The most convincing evidence are things that happen to me personally. I know you will reject them, but I’ll mention some of my experiences: Six months of horrible back pain going away almost immediately after a Christian brother prayed for me. Attending a penacostal singles group, I felt a strong push to go forward to the altar, a brother prayed for me, and mentioned specifically the problems I was struggling with. I never met the guy before in my life. A former pastor became a minister after an amazing experience. His legs were crushed after a tractor turned off and pinned him. An angel appeared and lifted the tractor off. A Christian friend told me in my college days that God revealed specifically who she was to marry by name. She never even knew a man by that name. Years later, she was happily married to this man. Some personal frightening encounters with the supernatural and demonic attacks And one of my favorite stories from a friend of mine, Doyle Dykes. The White Rose for Heidi. There is a pure example of a minor miracle [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RSOf4sTSK3Q/hqdefault.jpg "Doyle Dykes tells story of and plays "A White Rose for Heidi"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOf4sTSK3Q) On a non-personal level, the history of Israel completely fullfilling the Bible prophecies and description of the end times are pretty compelling. Also, the fact that archeology always complements the Bible, never contradicts it. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/63 "2012-04-24T13:08:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is this evidence of your deity, and no other? Presuming The Bible is considered evidence, God talks of other Gods. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/64 "2012-04-24T13:09:57Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Presuming The Bible is considered evidence, God talks of other Gods. Using the Bible to prove itself? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/65 "2012-04-24T13:11:56Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well I said personal experiences. You also said “evidences”, as in more than one. I quoted you directly in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/66 "2012-04-24T13:17:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Using the Bible to prove itself? Really? No, read your thread title. You ask for Evidence of deity, not evidence that the Bible exists. Okay everyone, “Proof” is defined by Czarcasm. If he doesnt qualify it as proof, it isnt. Like I said in a previous thread. giggle lol. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/67 "2012-04-24T13:18:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You also said “evidences”, as in more than one. I quoted you directly in the OP. He listed more then 1 in post #62 ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/68 "2012-04-24T13:21:00Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well I said personal experiences. The most convincing evidence are things that happen to me personally. I know you will reject them, but I’ll mention some of my experiences: > … > > On a non-personal level, the history of Israel completely fullfilling the Bible prophecies and description of the end times are pretty compelling. Also, the fact that archeology always complements the Bible, never contradicts it. You’re right, your personal stuff just makes me roll my eyes. So please elaborate on the fulfilled Bible prophecies. I guarantee that if they are legit, they will convince many more people than stories of angels lifting tractors. But to save time, be aware that nobody will be very impressed by prophecies that were fulfilled before the books reached final form (and therefore were easily backdated, like the “prophecies” about Cyrus, or the destruction of Herod’s Temple), or that are obvious, like wars and rumors of wars, or that are false, like Egypt being uninhabited for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/69 "2012-04-24T13:29:39Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well I said personal experiences. The most convincing evidence are things that happen to me personally. I know you will reject them, but I’ll mention some of my experiences: > > Six months of horrible back pain going away almost immediately after a Christian brother prayed for me. > > Attending a penacostal singles group, I felt a strong push to go forward to the altar, a brother prayed for me, and mentioned specifically the problems I was struggling with. I never met the guy before in my life. > > A former pastor became a minister after an amazing experience. His legs were crushed after a tractor turned off and pinned him. An angel appeared and lifted the tractor off. > > A Christian friend told me in my college days that God revealed specifically who she was to marry by name. She never even knew a man by that name. Years later, she was happily married to this man. All of that is nonsense. It’s far more likely that easily suggestible people attributed to God what were random occurrences. > [@](#): > > Some personal frightening encounters with the supernatural and demonic attacks Next time bring a camera when you fight demons. > [@](#): > > And one of my favorite stories from a friend of mine, Doyle Dykes. The White Rose for Heidi. There is a pure example of a minor miracle > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOf4sTSK3Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOf4sTSK3Q) I’m sure no performer ever bullshitted a nonsense story to connect with an audience. > [@](#): > > On a non-personal level, the history of Israel completely fullfilling the Bible prophecies and description of the end times are pretty compelling. Also, the fact that archeology always complements the Bible, never contradicts it. The bible says that the sky is a rock dome. The bible says that there was an Exodus and the Jews were never even captive in Egypt. The bible says that there was a world-wide flood that never happened. The bible is consistent with something primitive men living in the middle east would write. It contains nothing that would require supernatural guidance (for instance, it could have explained the composition of the sun, or how atoms work, or any number of things, that would be evidence they had some sort of supernatural insight when they wrote it.) Israel wasn’t reformed by an act of God. Men did it. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/70 "2012-04-24T13:45:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The bible says that the sky is a rock dome. The bible says that there was an Exodus and the Jews were never even captive in Egypt. The bible says that there was a world-wide flood that never happened. The bible is consistent with something primitive men living in the middle east would write. It contains nothing that would require supernatural guidance (for instance, it could have explained the composition of the sun, or how atoms work, or any number of things, that would be evidence they had some sort of supernatural insight when they wrote it.) > > Israel wasn’t reformed by an act of God. Men did it. So yorue saying because you have found some things wrong in The Bible, none of it is applicable? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/71 "2012-04-24T13:52:56Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So yorue saying because you have found some things wrong in The Bible, none of it is applicable? He didn’t, in any way, shape or form, say any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/72 "2012-04-24T13:55:01Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So yorue saying because you have found some things wrong in The Bible, none of it is applicable? Applicable to what? There are things in it that could have been written by any civilization in history, like laws against murder and theft. We still find those laws useful today. There are other laws in it that are sexist and barbaric, like stoning a woman for not being able to prove her virginity when she gets married, and we discard those (although many uninformed Christians are unaware that they are in the Bible, and consider their Islamic analogs to be proof of how silly the Quran is). What is NOT in it is any indication that it’s divinely inspired. It is exactly what you would expect from people who knew nothing about modern science, and had very erroneous ideas of history and geography. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/73 "2012-04-24T13:57:09Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So yorue saying because you have found some things wrong in The Bible, none of it is applicable? No, I’m saying that because some things are wrong, it throws into question the idea that the bible is supernaturally guided. God presumably knew that the sky wasn’t a solid dome. He could have passed that information down. Since there is nothing in the bible that shows supernatural insight, it’s far, far, more likely that it’s a holy book, like countless other holy books. Just a cultural snapshot of some primitive men living in a particularly backwards slice of the Roman Empire. And the moral teachings of the bible are largely repugnant. People pretend that it’s some kind of exceptional moral guide, but what does it teach? Slaves should obey their masters, rapists get to marry their victims, women are disgusting and should be cast out during menses, kill gay people, kill infants, take virgins as war-prizes, yada yada. Obviously there are useful and good things in the bible, but that’s because most people are decent enough. And a book that is intended to keep people on the straight and narrow, will by necessity have some wisdom in it. That doesn’t make it magical. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/74 "2012-04-24T13:58:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > All of that is nonsense. It’s far more likely that easily suggestible people attributed to God what were random occurrences. > > Next time bring a camera when you fight demons. Then you would easily claim photo manipulation. The reason there is no evidence is because atheists can always have an escape route. If you desperately want to not believe in something, you’ll find a way. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m sure no performer ever bullshitted a nonsense story to connect with an audience. This is why I have a very low opinion of atheists. You don’t know brother Doyle, and I find it pretty offensive that you claim he is a liar. Doyle performs for non-Christian audiences as well, and doesn’t tell the story or preach. His music alone is incredible and connects with audiences. He didn’t need to invent this story. > [@Lobohan](#): > > The bible says that the sky is a rock dome. The bible says that there was an Exodus and the Jews were never even captive in Egypt. The bible says that there was a world-wide flood that never happened. The bible is consistent with something primitive men living in the middle east would write. It contains nothing that would require supernatural guidance (for instance, it could have explained the composition of the sun, or how atoms work, or any number of things, that would be evidence they had some sort of supernatural insight when they wrote it.) More biased ignorant talk here. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Israel wasn’t reformed by an act of God. Men did it. Yea , certainly mankind can easily just scatter a culture to the four winds, and then bring them back together. Oh yea, lets put them through the holocaust to purposely fullfill that Bible prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/75 "2012-04-24T14:01:27Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Yea , certainly mankind can easily just scatter a culture to the four winds, and then bring them back together. Yeah… that how it happened. Zionists went over and worked the land, the Hand of God did not, in fact, relocate people from Russia to the Levant. As for a “bible prophecy” about the Holocaust, no. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/76 "2012-04-24T14:02:56Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Why did you even bother to ask? > > We both know there is no evidence whatsoever that would convince you. And given my high estimation of your education and intelligence level, there is no argument you haven’t heard numerous times before. The only reason they ask for evidence because it’s just a game where they can always create the illusion of being the winner. They have to find a way to discredit the many evidences to support their “non-belief”. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/77 "2012-04-24T14:03:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not really since Moses received the Torah on Sinai. Which is, I think around 4000 years ago. Maybe 3500. > > Of course, you may be talking about “Reform”, or “Reconstructionist” Judaism. But that’s just people playing at religion, IMO. > > As for Hindus - it is really hard to talk about single continuous ethnicity or culture there, there are so many, and so changing. Are you familiar with the Document hypothesis? I do not think that archaeology backs you up with regard to the Jewish religion being unchanged throughout the millenia. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/78 "2012-04-24T14:07:00Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Then you would easily claim photo manipulation. The reason there is no evidence is because atheists can always have an escape route. If you desperately want to not believe in something, you’ll find a way. Um, you’re talking about demons. It’s not a matter of desperately denying evidence. It’s a matter of not accepting a ridiculous story without any evidence but your claim. > [@](#): > > Oh yea, lets put them through the holocaust to purposely fullfill that Bible prophecy. Which Bible verse predicts the holocaust, and is more specific than just foretelling some great but vague calamity? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/79 "2012-04-24T14:08:14Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Oh yea, lets put them through the holocaust to purposely fullfill that Bible prophecy. Just out of curiosity, what Biblical holocaust prophecy are you referring to? I was raised SBC and that’s a new one on me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737/80 "2012-04-24T14:08:24Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > The only reason they ask for evidence because it’s just a game where they can always create the illusion of being the winner. They have to find a way to discredit the many evidences to support their “non-belief”. I only ask for evidence when a claim of evidence is made. The only game being played here is by those that believe that religion provides them a shield from having to back up their claims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/present-evidence-for-the-existence-of-your-deity/619737.md?page=5)