# Presidency or 70% majority in both houses of Congress? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209 "2015-06-23T03:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/41 "2015-06-24T07:31:59Z")
That’s the big problem with having an unengaged base. Low information voters tend to turn out a lot more for Presidential elections than for midterms and state elections. So while the low information voters can put a President in office, a political party can’t actually accomplish much with such a base. The real action happens in Congress and the states, and until the Democrats solve their base problem(low information/low motivation) they won’t be able to do much even if they win every Presidential election for the next 50 years. Then there’s the ability to pressure politicians, something which is only possible with a motivated, informed base. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/42 "2015-06-24T08:44:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I attribute it in part to the 2010 elections and the confidence that gave the business community. For a couple of years there they had no idea what further burdens were going to be placed on them. 2010 gave them certainty that no more would be done to them. Jesus. This is pure right-wing fantasy, along the lines of the claims that the economy was crashing in 2008 because the markets knew that Obama was going to be president. It’s post hoc nonsense. Remember when the US’s credit rating got downgraded because the Tea Party was determined to shut down the government no matter how irrational this proved to be? Do you think that made the markets happy? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/43 "2015-06-24T12:24:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I attribute it in part to the 2010 elections and the confidence that gave the business community. For a couple of years there they had no idea what further burdens were going to be placed on them. 2010 gave them certainty that no more would be done to them. Just like Obamacare was going to be the death knell to small businesses, didn’t quite work out that way. So which regulations enacted in 2009-10 were so offensive that businesses were so afraid of getting more of? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/44 "2015-06-24T12:35:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s the big problem with having an unengaged base. Low information voters tend to turn out a lot more for Presidential elections than for midterms and state elections. So while the low information voters can put a President in office, a political party can’t actually accomplish much with such a base. The real action happens in Congress and the states, and until the Democrats solve their base problem(low information/low motivation) they won’t be able to do much even if they win every Presidential election for the next 50 years. Then there’s the ability to pressure politicians, something which is only possible with a motivated, informed base. You’re confusing intensity with being informed. People with intense political beliefs turn out in the midterms, not necessarily the most informed. If you’re anti-abortion, you base 100% of your vote on that, even for votes for county treasurer and the like, on how they stand on abortion and you come out and vote Republican in the midterms. If you’re anti-gun control, much the same. You base 100% of your vote on that issue and you would walk on hot coals in a thunderstorm to vote Republican. All these single issue voters are very reliable Republican voters in both midterm and presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that Democratic voters are less informed, just less intense. Truth be told, the most uninformed portion of the electorate is that which gets most of its information from Fox, and we all know how they vote. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/45 "2015-06-24T13:55:54Z")
That’s a toughie. The President sets the national agenda in many ways, and can do a lot of good as the top guy in the Federal bureaucracy. That said, it sure would be nice (I’m a Democrat) to decisively control both houses of Congress and be able to pass veto-proof legislation. I guess I’d go with Congress. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/46 "2015-06-24T16:49:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Jesus. This is pure right-wing fantasy, along the lines of the claims that the economy was crashing in 2008 because the markets knew that Obama was going to be president. It’s post hoc nonsense. > > Remember when the US’s credit rating got downgraded because the Tea Party was determined to shut down the government no matter how irrational this proved to be? Do you think that made the markets happy? It did not and I would never claim that the GOP has been all good for the economy. But one thing business did know in Nov. 2010 that they didn’t know before was how much was going to be foisted on them by the government. If the Democrats had been reelected in 2010, there probably would have been a climate change bill of some sort and higher taxes. Business was reluctant to invest. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/47 "2015-06-24T16:50:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Just like Obamacare was going to be the death knell to small businesses, didn’t quite work out that way. So which regulations enacted in 2009-10 were so offensive that businesses were so afraid of getting more of? The employer mandate is still not fully implemented, because the administration also is concerned about the effect of ACA on small business. When Congress passes laws, we usually don’t operate on the assumption that the President will just waive the law when it becomes troublesome. Thus the predictions. Who could have predicted that a President would just waive a law he fought hard to get passed? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/48 "2015-06-24T16:52:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re confusing intensity with being informed. People with intense political beliefs turn out in the midterms, not necessarily the most informed. If you’re anti-abortion, you base 100% of your vote on that, even for votes for county treasurer and the like, on how they stand on abortion and you come out and vote Republican in the midterms. If you’re anti-gun control, much the same. You base 100% of your vote on that issue and you would walk on hot coals in a thunderstorm to vote Republican. All these single issue voters are very reliable Republican voters in both midterm and presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that Democratic voters are less informed, just less intense. Truth be told, the most uninformed portion of the electorate is that which gets most of its information from Fox, and we all know how they vote. I think you have a valid point, but either way it means Democrats can’t do too much with the base that they have. If you look at intensity issues as well, the only people really energized when an election isn’t near are progressives. But Democrats know that progressives can be discounted if they feel like it, since progressives don’t really bring any votes with them when it counts. Whereas conservative interest groups can take down incumbents in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/49 "2015-06-24T17:01:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think you have a valid point, but either way it means Democrats can’t do too much with the base that they have. If you look at intensity issues as well, the only people really energized when an election isn’t near are progressives. But Democrats know that progressives can be discounted if they feel like it, since progressives don’t really bring any votes with them when it counts. Whereas conservative interest groups can take down incumbents in a heartbeat. Your point is valid. I believe Democrats are in contempt of their base while Republicans are in fear of theirs. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/50 "2015-06-24T17:22:53Z")
That won’t last long, I believe. Republicans know they need to appeal to a wider audience and Democrats know they need to get themselves some more intense voters. Republicans will try to appeal more to young people and minorities, Democrats to working class whites, and the intensity disparity will diminish a lot. Both parties know their weaknesses. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/51 "2015-06-24T23:45:05Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > This reminds me of the old joke about choosing “death or chi-chi.” The difference being I get to pick between two groups to legislate whether I get death or death by chi-chi. It’s an interesting though experiment though. Either party with a super majority that can freely enact all or almost all of it’s platform gives me the willies. Just give me a bit to figure whether my party or the other party in that position is marginally less odious. Um, maybe you need to think about why you support an odious party. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/52 "2015-06-25T11:28:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It did not and I would never claim that the GOP has been all good for the economy. But one thing business did know in Nov. 2010 that they didn’t know before was how much was going to be foisted on them by the government. If the Democrats had been reelected in 2010, there probably would have been a climate change bill of some sort and higher taxes. Business was reluctant to invest. In 2010 we were just beginning to climb out of the bottom of the Great Recession. Both investment money and credit were in \*\*very \*\*short supply. To peg low investment on the Democrats is to ignore the wider economic context. > [@adaher](#): > > That won’t last long, I believe. Republicans know they need to appeal to a wider audience and Democrats know they need to get themselves some more intense voters. Republicans will try to appeal more to young people and minorities, Democrats to working class whites, and the intensity disparity will diminish a lot. Both parties know their weaknesses. Republicans SAY they want to appeal to minorities. This lasts a week or two until some bright spark or another announces that all Mexicans are rapists with calves like cantelopes who work for ISIS and spread Ebola and are stealing our children’s lunch money, and that’s why we need a 100-foot-high electrified fence along the border and to require anyone with a dark tan and a penchant for tortilla chips to carry identification papers at all times. Because whatever the GOP would like to do in theory, they’ve invited too many xenophobic loons into their big tent to keep them under control anymore. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/53 "2015-06-25T12:06:43Z")
And Democrats would like to be the party of the white working class again, but that ain’t happening either. but eventually something will change, things always change. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/54 "2015-06-25T22:31:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And Democrats would like to be the party of the white working class again, but that ain’t happening either. but eventually something will change, things always change. Um, there are still a lot of white working-class Democrats around here. Where are you? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209/55 "2015-06-25T23:25:34Z")
Getting a bit off-track for the thread, aren’t we…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidency-or-70-majority-in-both-houses-of-congress/723209.md?page=2)