I’d say the soldier is supposed to do it, since the commander-in-chief isn’t subject to the UCMJ. If an NCO/junior officer told the soldier to do it, it’s basically expected that the senior man will do it as well otherwise it could be considered “hazing.”
A few months ago some of my peers did something stupid so they had to run to the company office and start doing push-ups, and their corporal was right there with them doing it. I have other examples but it doesn’t matter really.
I’m just a Lance Corporal though, so I don’t really know about the politics. I would do it.
This reminds me of how this constantly happens at work.
Our direct supervisor tells us to go take an extended break because the computer system is down and there’s nothing we can do until it’s back up and he’ll text us when it’s back-up. Cue some head honcho who has nothing to do with our division going WHAT THE HELL DO YOU GUYS THINK YOU’RE DOING TAKING A BREAK AT THIS TIME, I COULD GET YOU FIRED FOR THIS!!!
It got even better with some random upper management person threatened to have us fired and escorted out of the building for taking a break “too early”, when our office literally has no security at all. What was she going to string together a bunch of IT guys to point brooms at us and force us to leave the building?
If you want someone in another chain of command to do something, you don’t necessarily need to send the request all the way to the top and let it come back down the other side. While two officers in different chains might not be able to issue orders to each other, they can still make requests of each other, and those requests will often be granted without much muss or fuss.
The 1st Sergeant never made anyone do pushups or any other task?
I’ve been walking around a base before and saw a Chief Master Sergeant (E-9) who was picking up some trash that had blown out of a dumpster. He said “Hey guys, come here and help me pick this up” You’re saying I could have said “Sorry Chief, you are not in my chain of command, so I don’t have to do anything you say”?
I’m not sure what you mean about the 1SG. If you are replying to what I said about NCOs not being in the chain of command that’s not what I said. I didn’t want to muddy things up with talking about the NCO Support Channel. I can only put it in Army terms. In the Army generally the only position in the chain of command that is held by a NCO is squad leader (mostly an E-6 slot). The CoC goes squad leader<platoon leader<company commander<battalion commander<brigade commander. In every position above squad leader there is an officer and NCO team. The platoon leader has his platoon sergeant. The company commander has his 1st sergeant. And so on. Those NCOs are not in the chain of command. There is only one person in the CoC at each level. That doesn’t mean they have no authority. The NCOs are part of the NCO Support Channel. They work in parallel with their officers and their command authority is delegated from the CoC. That means that yes the 1SG can order you to do things even though he is not the commander. In a well run unit the NCO and officer understand their lanes and keep to it.
Support Channel explained:
As to your second part, notice he asked and didn’t order? That particular task he asked you to perform is something that no soldier should walk past without doing. I would say that’s the E-9 using his General Authority rather than his Command Authority. “Come over and pick up this trash” is different than “Come over and change the oil on my assigned vehicle.”
Well, in the AF, stuff is usually asked and not ordered, but the concept is the same. Besides you said “You can only order those in your chain of command” and I’m saying that is not true. The Chief wasn’t in my chain of command, but he could sure order me to help him clean the area up. And I imagine that an Army 1st Sergeant isn’t in the chain of command either, but could order soldiers to do pushups or whatever. (I wasn’t in the Army, so give me a little latitude about roles of 1st Sergeants if you could)
We don’t have “do pushups” in the AF, since punitive punishment is not allowed to be given by NCOs or Officers not on G-series orders (Commanders). And pushups are not a legal form of punishment anyway. (This is for regular AF, not the TACPs or SF or whatever)
No they really can’t. You can only exert command authority over those under your command. You can make on the spot corrections to someone not under you in the chain of command using your general military authority. Even with an on the spot correction after the immediate action to correct is taken the soldiers chain should be contacted for any punitive measures to be taken. I’m not making it up I’ve provided cites. Command and general authority are not Army things they are military things.
Now in practice when a random E-8 tells a random E-3 to do something that’s not the time to argue. But when it gets back to me as his NCO I will sure as hell go as far up my chain as I need to in order to get his chain to tell him to leave my soldiers alone. Yes that can happen but usually everyone understands their roles and there is no need.
Yes, I’m sure you would do that if the Chief of Staff of the Army told one of your soldiers to do something - “Hey General McArmyGuy, next time, check with me before you have my soldier doing something, since you are not in the chain of command and all.” :dubious:
You don’t know me that well. A good leader will protect his troops. If anyone was out of line with my troops I would let them know it. I’ve been around too many flag officers to be intimidated by their rank. I also have enough tact to do it correctly.
But a general coming by and starting to order random privates around is just slightly more likely than the pope coming by and doing the same. Generals shake hands and ask “where are you from son?” They have colonels to yell at they don’t bother with privates.
Well, I took care of my troops too. But if a random LT from the next section needed a couple of my guys to help with some detail and I’m not around for some reason, they have no authority to tell the LT “Sorry LT, but I don’t have to go with you since you’re not in my chain of command”
As I said before, we will have to agree to disagree.
The Air Force doesn’t count as a military organization does it?
When I was in Basic Training, there were two identical twin brothers in my platoon. This presented some opportunities for some problems, for the drill sergeants. One of the brothers would be tasked to go off on some detail, say KP. The other guy has to clean the barracks. Not everybody was fully aware there were a set of identical twins in the outfit. So one of the leadership notices the guy he told to go do something, is doing or not doing, something completely different, in a different location. WTF? “Hey Private, get over here. Didn’t I tell you to go clean the latrine?”
“I don’t know Drill Sergeant, that was probably my brother…”
President Washington personally lead troops in 1794 to suppress the Whisky Rebellion.
Although it seems unlikely Washington would have issued frivolous orders. I don’t have a cute but have always understood that Washington is the reason our Presidents is also Commander in Chief.
I presented you with cites as to the difference between command and general authority. It’s not a disagreement you are wrong. They absolutely can say that. Tactfully of course. In practice it’s not a hill you want to die on at the time but if you as a leader didn’t address it later with the captain then you failed your troops. There is a reason why there is a chain of command and why it must be followed not only by those who are on the bottom of the ladder. If it’s a lieutenant as a senior NCO I probably wouldn’t even use tact but might throw a sir in there. I know my commander would back me up.
IME anyone mentioning to a member of a buildings custodial staff, that " FYI the second stall in that mens room has an issue" would result in the problem being solved with no chain of command issues at all and no need to launch an incident command system to respond to the plugged up toilet.
Be advised that any work requests for custodial staff must be put on a work order sent through the the custodial supervisor. This is to ensure that our resources are allocated effeciently. If you have any questions contact the undersigned.
