# President Biden's speech on the virus September 9, 2021 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 10, 2021, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443 "2021-09-10T10:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/21 "2021-09-10T17:59:23Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Can a president just force private corporations to make sure their employees are vaccinated? I mean, I agree with the goal, but how is this different from (ludicrous example) Trump issuing an executive order that all corporations with more than 100 employees fire all their workers of Mexican descent? For one, “Mexican” is a protected class while “Unvaccinated” is not. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/22 "2021-09-10T18:05:18Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I am somewhat uncomfortable delving into the religious exemptions The religious are welcome to drag their crosses up and down the street. Be careful at crosswalks though. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/23 "2021-09-10T18:19:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I am somewhat uncomfortable delving into the religious exemptions and I think that’s going to be a minefield for us. What exactly ARE the religious exemptions? Details. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/24 "2021-09-10T18:32:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > Can a president just force private corporations to make sure their employees are vaccinated? I mean, I agree with the goal, but how is this different from (ludicrous example) Trump issuing an executive order that all corporations with more than 100 employees fire all their workers of Mexican descent? > > For one, “Mexican” is a protected class while “Unvaccinated” is not. Okay … How is this different from (new ludicrous example) Trump issuing an executive order that all corporations with more than 100 employees serve only hamburgers in their lunchrooms? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/25 "2021-09-10T18:34:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > “You don’t have to get the vaccine. But you also don’t have to participate in society until you do” I would change that to “you **can’t** participate in society until you do” Screw religious exemptions whatever they are. And of course health issues. But everyone else HAS to step and get the vaccine. Trump uncovered the rocks of all his supporters, and now we have over 600,000 dead. Double what it might be. And these morons are trying to prolong this. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/26 "2021-09-10T18:36:24Z")
OSHA is already charged policing workplace safety. I doubt that have an extensive list of every possible safety hazard. Working in close contact with unvaccinated (or untested) people during a pandemic is a safety hazard. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/27 "2021-09-10T18:41:30Z")
The Republicans have started protesting this unholy infringement on their Constitutional Right to injure and/or kill others through willful negligence and/or ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/28 "2021-09-10T18:48:28Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > OSHA is already charged policing workplace safety. I doubt that have an extensive list of every possible safety hazard. Working in close contact with unvaccinated (or untested) people during a pandemic is a safety hazard. Yup. Hard hats, safety googles, orange vests… the list will go on, and on and on. All of that is kind of a pain in the ass to wear. But it is done. A simple injection? Some won’t do it. No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/29 "2021-09-10T18:55:22Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Okay … > > How is this different from (new ludicrous example) Trump issuing an executive order that all corporations with more than 100 employees serve only hamburgers in their lunchrooms? This serves the public good, while mandating that all corporations with more than 100 employees serve only hamburgers in their lunchrooms does not. However, if when Trump was in office he tried to pass such a mandate by claiming that it WAS in the public good, I wouldn’t think that should be stopped on constitutional grounds. Rather, we would all have to decide whether we agreed with Trump’s policy or not when we are voting at the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/30 "2021-09-10T18:59:11Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > OSHA is already charged policing workplace safety. I doubt that have an extensive list of every possible safety hazard. Working in close contact with unvaccinated (or untested) people during a pandemic is a safety hazard. Completely agree. But that doesn’t answer my question as to whether OSHA rules can be created spontaneously via executive order, instead of the standard and laborious bureaucratic process. > [@Babale](#): > > However, if when Trump was in office he tried to pass such a mandate by claiming that it WAS in the public good, I wouldn’t think that should be stopped on constitutional grounds. This is my issue right here. While I agree with Biden on this and would obviously disagree with Trump, if our system and constitution look on both equally I’d say there’s something seriously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/31 "2021-09-10T19:17:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For one, “Mexican” is a protected class while “Unvaccinated” is not. Just to play devils advocate, what if we change “Mexican” to “Democrats.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/32 "2021-09-10T19:24:50Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The religious are welcome to drag their crosses up and down the street. Be careful at crosswalks though. That’s pretty much how I personally feel but professionally I can’t express that. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What exactly ARE the religious exemptions? Details. I haven’t gotten any yet but I’ve had some employees tell me they plan on filling out the religious exemption form and I’m not sure how we’re going to handle those requests. Most of the religious accommodations I’ve dealt with have been relatively simple and straightforward no-brainers like Muslims asking us to accommodate their need to pray or for Hindus to take a day off to observe their holidays. These accommodations are not at all disruptive, don’t cost us anything, and most importantly don’t have the potential to harm others. The good news is that we don’t have to jump through hoops to make religious accommodations for employees like we do for disabilities. If the cost is more than “de minimis,” we don’t have to accommodate. But even if we’re in the right, it’s going to be stressful dealing with this over the course of the next few weeks. If anything, Biden’s announcement might take some of the heat off of us. Yeah, we announced our policy before Biden did, but if you jump to another company they’re going to have the same requirements about the vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/33 "2021-09-10T19:26:35Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > This is my issue right here. While I agree with Biden on this and would obviously disagree with Trump, if our system and constitution look on both equally I’d say there’s something seriously wrong. I don’t know what to tell you. That’s how democracy works. If enough people want something stupid done, then something stupid can happen, and the system isn’t designed to stop that from happening\*. \*in a way, it WAS designed to prevent that - the Founding Fathers were elitist assholes who assumed that if they only let white landowners vote, and anyways their votes don’t really matter because they’re actually just picking electors who are the smart guys who make the real decisions, then everything would be OK. Since then we’ve learned that plenty of rich people are enormously stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/34 "2021-09-10T19:28:29Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > For one, “Mexican” is a protected class while “Unvaccinated” is not. > > Just to play devils advocate, what if we change “Mexican” to “Democrats.” That’s targeting of political opponents which is anti-democratic in and of itself. And same with if it was “Republicans” of course. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/35 "2021-09-10T19:36:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s how democracy works. Democracy = The president can tell private businesses what to do, based exclusively on what he/she perceives as serving the public good? I understand executive orders for government-related matters and areas like airports and roads which are owned and/or tightly overseen by the government. But I’m uncomfortable with the president being able to simply tell me and my (hypothetical) 101-person business that I have to (or can’t) do something. Not trying to be belligerent – I really want to hear why this is permissible. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/36 "2021-09-10T20:03:02Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Democracy = The president can tell private businesses what to do, based exclusively on what he/she perceives as serving the public good? No, my point is in response to this: > [@Akaj](#): > > While I agree with Biden on this and would obviously disagree with Trump, if our system and constitution look on both equally I’d say there’s something seriously wrong. A democracy has to look on both the stupid idea and the good idea equally, because if we had some system above and not beholden to democratic means telling us “no, this thing the people want to do is stupid” then we don’t have a real democracy, and we have to trust that TPTB’s definition of “stupid” isn’t “puts me out of power”. If your point is that neither Biden’s order nor Trump’s hypothetical one should be allowed, then you DO in fact want “our system and constitution [to] look on both equally” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/37 "2021-09-10T20:07:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > A democracy has to look on both the stupid idea and the good idea equally, because if we had some system above and not beholden to democratic means telling us “no, this thing the people want to do is stupid” then we don’t have a real democracy But I’m not talking about all stupid and good ideas; obviously the “system” (three branches, checks and balances, etc.) has to apply equally to all of them. I’m talking about stupid and good ideas _in executive orders_. If Biden’s corporate vaccine mandate and Trump’s corporate hamburger mandate are equally valid, what’s to stop the next Trump from mandating hamburgers? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/38 "2021-09-10T20:23:05Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I’m talking about stupid and good ideas _in executive orders_ . If Biden’s corporate vaccine mandate and Trump’s corporate hamburger mandate are equally valid, what’s to stop the next Trump from mandating hamburgers? Why does anything need to stop him from mandating hamburgers? It’s a bad policy, but it doesn’t unfairly discriminate against some Americans due to membership in a protected class (maybe Hindus who don’t eat beef could request that veggie burgers be available as well). It isn’t on its face illegal (maybe if you could show that Trump signed the order in exchange for campaign contributions for Ronald McDonald who is providing the burgers). After all, Trump unilaterally allocated emergency funds towards another stupid solution that did not actually address the problem it was meant to solve (the wall). So your example already happened, and yeah, nothing stopped him. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/39 "2021-09-10T20:27:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why does anything need to stop him from mandating hamburgers? OK, I give up. I’m not talking about the pros and cons of a hamburger mandate. I’m trying to talk about the pros and cons (and, more precisely, validity in a supposedly democratic and free enterprise system) of a president being able to mandate such things to private businesses. (So maybe I don’t give up. 🙄 🙂) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/40 "2021-09-10T20:30:00Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > OK, I give up. I’m not talking about the pros and cons of a hamburger mandate. I’m trying to talk about the pros and cons (and, more precisely, validity in a supposedly democratic and free enterprise system) of a president being able to mandate such things to private businesses. What I objected to was you saying that the law shouldn’t view the mask/vaccine mandate equally with a burgers mandate. It doesn’t sound like you actually think that those two mandates should be treated differently though, so we may have been speaking past one another 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443.md?page=3)