# President Biden's speech on the virus September 9, 2021 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 10, 2021, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443 "2021-09-10T10:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/61 "2021-09-11T19:41:59Z")
> White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday that federal employees will be given “about 75 days” to become fully vaccinated. The mandate will have “limited exceptions” for medical or religious reasons, she said. Employees who refuse to comply will face disciplinary action that is likely to vary among agencies, depending on what is laid out in their collective-bargaining agreements. Union officials said they hope any discipline to start with written warnings and progress to suspensions without pay — and possible dismissals. And this just feeds into the Trump stuff. This is a pandemic, right? This is why we are taking such an extraordinary step. So why 75 days? Nope, this week. Why over two months? It also “varies among agencies” depending on “collective bargaining agreements.” So Covid respects your union status? Further, if you fail to get a vaccine, we _call you into the office_ to issue you a written warning. Fire people if you are serious about this. Even idiot redneck Trump supporters see that Biden isn’t really serious about this or else he wouldn’t have so many holes in it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/62 "2021-09-11T19:44:12Z")
Is there a link that accompanies that quote? Maybe the time frame is explained there. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/63 "2021-09-11T19:47:22Z")
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/federal-workers-e2-80-99-vaccine-mandate-prompts-confusion-as-the-government-struggles-to-return-to-offices/ar-AAOjuK1](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/federal-workers-e2-80-99-vaccine-mandate-prompts-confusion-as-the-government-struggles-to-return-to-offices/ar-AAOjuK1) My bad. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/64 "2021-09-11T20:05:22Z")
Thanks. It sounds to me like the 75 days is due to what a huge job this is going to be. What time frame would you rather see? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/65 "2021-09-11T20:05:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Yeah, my issue is that I grew up thinking that we lived in a representative democracy. You know, the whole, call your legislator and introduce a bill? Historically, U.S. states have laws for public health emergencies and invoke them if there is an epidemic. The difference here is that the federal government is attempting to do what the states should have all done months ago. As for federal statutory basis: [the governing statute known as the Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act allows OSHA to bypass ordinary rulemaking procedures in the interest of “permitting rapid action to meet emergencies.”](https://www.thebulwark.com/are-bidens-new-vaccination-mandates-legal/) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/66 "2021-09-11T20:08:51Z")
1. So if the states aren’t passing the correct laws, then the feds step in? States have plenary authority, but only if they are doing it the right way? 2. This isn’t an “emergency.” It is definitely very serious, but not “emergent” in any way. There is plenty of time for legislatures to meet. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/67 "2021-09-11T20:17:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Further, if you fail to get a vaccine, we _call you into the office_ to issue you a written warning. Fire people if you are serious about this. Getting written up will be enough to get compliance well past 90 percent — I’d think past 95 percent. Complying with negotiated progressive discipline contract provisions — effectively means you almost always have to be given a second chance — will not, I’d think, much affect the rate of employee vaccine uptake. Firing is not the goal, since the unvaccinated individual is then still walking around all of us. Also, they can write someone up a lot quicker than they can fire them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/68 "2021-09-11T20:22:30Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Also, they can write someone up a lot quicker than they can fire them. That hits at the heart of it. In the past year they have told people to close their businesses. They can’t go to bars or restaurants. They can’t attend church or freely assemble. Can’t have extended family over for holidays. This is that serious. We can suspend the Constitution, but not Union Contracts! No, siree! Far too important. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/69 "2021-09-11T20:24:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This isn’t an “emergency.” It is definitely very serious, but not “emergent” in any way. There is plenty of time for legislatures to meet. That really is the question. If the next strain has a 20 percent death rate, I’m guessing you would agree with Biden. Right? Here is the case for it being an emergency: > **[Just Say It: The Health Care System Has Collapsed](https://slate.com/technology/2021/09/healthcare-system-collapse-icu-ration-beds.html)** > > Delta hasn't brought us to the brink or the edge. We're way past that. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/70 "2021-09-11T20:37:48Z")
In any case, I’m glad to see that we finally have a President who takes the pandemic and vaccinations seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/71 "2021-09-11T20:40:15Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > That’s how democracy works. > > Democracy = The president can tell private businesses what to do, based exclusively on what he/she perceives as serving the public good? > > I understand executive orders for government-related matters and areas like airports and roads which are owned and/or tightly overseen by the government. But I’m uncomfortable with the president being able to simply tell me and my (hypothetical) 101-person business that I have to (or can’t) do something. That sounds like you have an issue with the concept of the OSHA in general. It is an entity that can regulate safety in the workplace. And it is part of the executive branch of the federal government, which means its boss is the president. So, ultimatley, everything that OSHA covers comes from the authority of the president. The issue with your hypothetical hamburger ruling is that it would be hard to prove that it was in fact a safety measure. It’s not hard at all to argue that requiring vaccinations is a safety measure, as it’s a safety measure companies have been taking for over a century. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are other vaccine mandates in OSHA. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/72 "2021-09-11T20:42:43Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We can suspend the Constitution, but not Union Contracts! No, siree! Far too important. I don’t think Biden suspended the Constitution. But it will be up to the Supreme Court to decide. If he doesn’t comply, instead acting like many dual-system southern school districts that didn’t comply with Brown until 1970, you will be right. But I think he will comply if he loses cases the outcome of which we now do not know. As for union contracts that typically, with varying language, require negotiating before changing conditions of employment, there is a good case that he is violating many of them. He’s not violating every possible contract clause, but he is violating some. He’s probably doing as much violating as he can get away with (and he can get away with a lot, because most union members prefer that co-workers are vaccinated). Maybe I am wrong, but I think that getting written up might be approximately as effective as threatened firing. There is a chance that getting written up will lead to vaccination and that an inevitably drawn out firing threat will not. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/73 "2021-09-12T04:18:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So if the states aren’t passing the correct laws, then the feds step in? States have plenary authority, but only if they are doing it the right way? Well, what should be the backup plan if states are fucking up the task of dealing with a massive public health catastrophe, the consequences of which impact not only their citizens but citizens of other states as well? If the states that are encouraging resistance to vaccination and mask use were actually being successful in getting COVID under control by some other means, I’d be all against Biden trying to use executive authority to force them into promoting vaccination and mask use. But they’re not being successful. They’re being a fucking disaster and needlessly killing and sickening their own people by the tens of thousands. How much massively destructive cynical misgovernance are we as a nation required to put up with in the name of states’ rights? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/74 "2021-09-12T04:51:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Republicans have started protesting this unholy infringement on their Constitutional Right to injure and/or kill others through willful negligence and/or ignorance. **Saffron** : Are you gonna kill me? **Mal** : What? What kind of crappy planet is that? Kill you. **Saffron** : In the maiden’s home, I heard talk of men who weren’t pleased with their brides… **Mal** : Well, I ain’t them. And don’t you ever stand for that sort of thing. Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/75 "2021-09-12T04:52:58Z")
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Those pesky Amendments! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/76 "2021-09-12T05:00:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. How remarkable that this didn’t occur to you as an objection to Presidential executive orders during the previous four years. And I repeat my question: What should be the backup plan if states are fucking up the task of dealing with a massive public health catastrophe, the consequences of which impact not only their citizens but citizens of other states as well? Just shrug your shoulders and say “sure, go on irresponsibly killing people in your mishandling of the worst pandemic in a century”? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/77 "2021-09-12T07:08:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And I repeat my question: What should be the backup plan if states are fucking up the task of dealing with a massive public health catastrophe, the consequences of which impact not only their citizens but citizens of other states as well? Just shrug your shoulders and say “sure, go on irresponsibly killing people in your mishandling of the worst pandemic in a century”? That’s what a representative democracy is: sometimes bad laws are enacted or good ones not. Your argument seems to be that democracy is a contingent process. We let the people govern themselves, that is until I personally believe they have made a mistake, at which point we go to a dictatorship so me and my people (who we all know are always right) get to enact policy. Your subsidiary position that I infer is that okay, I might let you slide on “minor” stuff, but this thing here is very, very important so the usual rules are suspended. Yes, but that is how every dictatorship in history has started. There is always an important issue that is claimed for excesses of power. Don’t get me wrong. I’m probably more disappointed that you that people on my side have their heads up their asses on this issue and won’t take a free vaccine. I’m not there yet, but I may be convinced to support mandatory vaccination. But that debate, like everything in a free society, should not be dictated from on high, especially under a law for an “emergency.” This has been going on for 18 months. The legislatures have all met or are meeting. Congress is meeting now. This is not an emergency. We can enact this policy the right way. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/78 "2021-09-12T07:17:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > How remarkable that this didn’t occur to you as an objection to Presidential executive orders during the previous four years. I’ve objected to it for years, if I may slightly digress. IMHO, it is a way for your congressman or state legislator to smile, shake your hand, tell you he supports the Second Amendment, School Choice, a Woman’s Right to Choose, or whatever the issue du jour in your area is without having to make tough choices. A vaccine mandate would alienate half of his voters. So he wants someone else to make the choice. The first way this was handled was in giant omnibus bills. “Yes, good citizen, I did not want to vote for that gun bill, but it was tied to the budget, so I had no choice.” Now, they just allow the executive to dictate the law. IMHO, this is very troubling for representative democracy and needs to stop. Maybe I’m an idealist, but the thought is that we hire congressman and legislators to make those decisions and not to pass the buck while the legislator smiles and the latest ribbon cutting ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/79 "2021-09-12T07:26:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. And OSHA is exercising Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443/80 "2021-09-12T12:51:28Z")
Didn’t Trump declare an emergency to steal money for a border wall after the legislature refused to give him the money? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bidens-speech-on-the-virus-september-9-2021/950443.md?page=5)