# President Bush wants to become a dictator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226 "2004-05-26T19:46:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/21 "2004-05-27T00:37:38Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > It’s one thing to dismiss the Clinton critics as tin-foil hat nutjobs because they couldn’t offer any evidence for their claims; it’s another thing to dismiss the Bush critics as nutjobs when they do. The funniest thing is…you actually believe this. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/22 "2004-05-27T00:38:09Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > And I can’t help but notice that it’s been 3 years since Clinton was voted out of office > [@Zagadka](#): > > … I know you live in an alternate universe, but I didn’t realize how alternate it was O\_o Sometimes when desire and passion are strong enough, reason is overwhelmed, and you can actually remember things that never ever happened. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/23 "2004-05-27T00:39:20Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > The funniest thing is…you actually believe this. > > -XT I believe it too. How funny is that? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/24 "2004-05-27T00:51:12Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > … I know you live in an alternate universe, but I didn’t realize how alternate it was O\_o Fair enough. I chose my words poorly. But the point remains – Clinton’s _party_ has been voted out of office. Why hasn’t his party stopped criticizing their opposition? Maybe because the criticism from either party does not depend on merely holding the Executive office. Maybe because the criticism is _supposed_ to continue despite losing the Executive. Maybe suggesting otherwise is a bit confused. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/25 "2004-05-27T00:54:55Z")
_Who_ is currently President is completely irrelevant. Every administration can count on a small but vocal percentage of hard-core enemies. Even Presidents now considered great had in their time people who would accuse them of the greatest of evils. Assassination cures it, though, and much of the vitriol that had been directed against the now-martyred President quickly evaporates. Lincoln and Kennedy were absolutely _hated_ by some, but after their deaths, the enemies were hard to find. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/26 "2004-05-27T01:06:27Z")
I remember when some people blamed everything bad that happens on Reagan. I remember when some people blamed everything bad that happens on Clinton. Now some people blame everything bad that happens on Bush. I don’t remember when people blamed anything on Carter. Then again, I was only three when he was elected. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/27 "2004-05-27T01:28:46Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I believe it too. How funny is that? Not surprising…but its pretty funny, yes. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/28 "2004-05-27T01:48:21Z")
I would surrender my daily ration of Cup Cakes if only one of the tin foil brigade would explain _how_ W will become dictator. Seeing as that there is no legal basis for stopping the elections, or declaring oneself King of America, or anything along those lines, _what is the actual mechanism_ that will be used to make W El Presidente for Life? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/29 "2004-05-27T01:56:44Z")
I dunno **Duke** , it’s only been a year and a half since I had to [correct](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=2628229&#post2628229) someone who blamed Jimmy Carter for the 55-MPH speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/30 "2004-05-27T02:00:56Z")
I was a young teen but I do remember the ABC-“Anybody But Carter” buttons. People were generally depressed about him as I recall. He was rather uninspiring and had a tin ear for how his ideas (which even I thought were pretty good) sounded to the public. And the Iranian hostage crisis–I don’t think people who weren’t older than 8 or so can imagine what a horrible effect it had on our psyche. Under Carter we learned for the first time how much some of the world hated us. Although they all made it out alive. But he has made a great EX-President. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/31 "2004-05-27T02:01:10Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Seeing as that there is no legal basis for stopping the elections, or declaring oneself King of America, or anything along those lines, what is the actual mechanism that will be used to make W El Presidente for Life? [putting on tinfoil hat] [REX 84](http://www.newsmine.org/archive/coldwar-imperialism/iran-contra/suspend-constitution-rex-84.txt), man! Don’t you remember, when Ollie North was drawing up those plans for Reagan…? [taking off tinfoil hat] ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/32 "2004-05-27T02:19:25Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > The Executive has always been secretive in its decision-making processes, and I think that’s a good thing. The Framers of the Constitution held secretive, closed-door meetings, away from the prying eyes of the electorate. The meetings were done in secret to encourage the free discussion of ideas, good or bad, among the delegates. I’m reminded of another executive (Otto Van Bismark) who said something about sausages and laws. > > Executives have always appreciated and used this fact. The Bush Admin isn’t any more or less secretive than any prior Admin. For example, Republicans sued Clinton because he refused to disclose the parties with whom he’d met while formulating his national health care plan. Sound familiar? > > It’s just that criticism of secretive decision-making processes has been heating up since Watergate, and has accelerated through Reagan and Clinton. And you’re probably more aware of it now because the opposition party is in power. > > We may not get free reign to analyze the Executive’s decision-making process, but we do get to analyze its decisions. Who cares what they discussed at their meetings, so long as they arrived at the correct decisions? I think that’s more than enough to protect our democracy.Wow. I’m surprised that anyone has their blinders on so tight that they could possibly believe this is true. First, I disagree that this Administration is not more secretive. For example, Ashcroft issued an order regarding the freedom of information act that roughly said “when in doubt, don’t release (and the Justice Dept will defend you)”, replacing Janet Reno’s order that said “When in doubt, release.” In regards to missile defense, the Administration decided to classify tests that were not being classified under the Clinton Administration. Thus, organizations like Union of Concerned Scientists are no longer able to conduct as extensive analyses of the tests and point out the flaws. Rumsfeld also tried to get the program exempted from a lot of Congressional oversight although I think Congress balked at much of that. As for why should we care how the decisions are arrived at as long as they are correct. Well, I don’t think the energy policy is the correct decision at all. And, I think we have the right to know how such silly decisions were arrived at. Actually, we really already pretty much know that too, but we have the right for the public at large to know. For example, they have the right to know how special interests who have contributed a lot to the campaign are getting access to the President and his advisors. And, I agreed with those who felt that similar info should have been released by Clinton in regards to the health care plan. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/33 "2004-05-27T02:36:22Z")
I can remember at least a couple of posts from Dopers claiming that Bush was going to cancel the elections. And **Stoid** can be counted on for a couple of hysterical “The world is coming to an end” threads every time the Republicans win a national election. But this isn’t particularly new. Reagan was going to be the cowboy who started Armaggedon, Nixon was evil incarnate, and now Bush is The Worst President in History[sup]TM[/sup]. Not as much with Ford, Bush 41, or Carter, who were seen as simply inept. And Clinton was characterized as _personally_ slimy, but not necessarily out to end the world as we know it. Some of that got flung at Hilary the Co-President, mostly in connection with her desire to federalize the American health care industry. I hated Clinton, but not to the degree that Dopers hate Bush. Clinton was a disgrace to the Presidency, but fortunately his scandals took up his time, and all he really wanted to achieve was to be re-elected. And he did deliver a Republican Congress. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/34 "2004-05-27T02:51:58Z")
It’s kinda sad that there are a few here who can’t even agree that the Clinton bashing and the Bush bashing are just about as bad, though if I had to pick a worse one, it would be clinton because his went on for 8 years and bush hasn’t quite had four yet. 😛 I will say that Bush’s mistakes do seem to be a bit more global than clintons. Getting his “winkie whacked” (ty Lewis Black), the $200 dollar haircut, and Jocelyn Elders “education” ideas seem kind of small compared to tossing away global goodwill to invade Iraq with such a half baked reconstruction plan. I won’t back the dictator idea though, which I have heard talk of since I live in a fairly liberal area. If the elections are getting more and more venomous, think of how fun 2008 is going to be :eek: One tinfoil hat idea that I want to add. With the somewhat easily hackable e-voting machines out and about, it would be terribly easy to toss the election results for either side. Add in a divided populace, sprinkle with a few looneys and instant mess. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/35 "2004-05-27T03:09:27Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I also remember co-workers and assorted nut jobs wringing their hands over the man, as if he were the anti-Christ or something, and predicting all kinds of dire things…most of which were as ridiculous as the current frenzy against Bush. And none of which in fact happened. I knew we were in for the same shit actually even before Bush was sworn in. It’s important to note that most of the alarmist cant about Clinton from the right was about things Clinton was GONNA do but never did or showed much sign of doing. Clinton was GONNA take away all our guns. Clinton was GONNA make the UN the World Gummint. Clinton was GONNA force Eagle Scouts to become gay. The alarmist cant about Bush is mostly about things Bush HAS ACTUALLY DONE. Bush HAS embroiled us in a Mideastern quagmire. Bush DID lie about the pretext for going to war. Bush HAS let government spending go hog-wide. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/36 "2004-05-27T04:19:26Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Clinton was GONNA force Eagle Scouts to become gay. Oooooooh, I was wondering who did that. Glad to finally have that mystery solved. Er, right, something on topic… I’ll restate. Bush doesn’t want to be a dictator, but PNAC wants to establish a new dynasty, by their own admittance. Scary enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/37 "2004-05-27T04:20:10Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > _Who_ is currently President is completely irrelevant. Every administration can count on a small but vocal percentage of hard-core enemies. Even Presidents now considered great had in their time people who would accuse them of the greatest of evils. > > Assassination cures it, though, and much of the vitriol that had been directed against the now-martyred President quickly evaporates. Lincoln and Kennedy were absolutely _hated_ by some, but after their deaths, the enemies were hard to find. There is an obvious response to this, but mentioning it might provoke the Secret Service to investigate this board. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/38 "2004-05-27T04:29:50Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Bush doesn’t want to be a dictator, but PNAC wants to establish a new dynasty, by their own admittance. Scary enough for me. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/39 "2004-05-27T04:33:02Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > One tinfoil hat idea that I want to add. With the somewhat easily hackable e-voting machines out and about, it would be terribly easy to toss the election results for either side. Add in a divided populace, sprinkle with a few looneys and instant mess. The machines are not hackable, are they, unless they are connected to the Internet or an intranet? Which, as I understand, they won’t be – no cite, but I’ve heard this discussed on _All Things Considered._ I would add that it is going to be very, very hard to pull off any kind of fraud in this election, because it is going to be the most closely watched election in American history. Some have even called for official international observers. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226/40 "2004-05-27T04:57:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I will say that Bush’s mistakes do seem to be a bit more global than clintons. Getting his “winkie whacked” (ty Lewis Black), the $200 dollar haircut, and Jocelyn Elders “education” ideas seem kind of small compared to tossing away global goodwill to invade Iraq Nonsense. The ‘goodwill’ after 9/11 lasted exactly three weeks, when the first bombs started dropping on Afghanistan. Then there were worldwide protests (HUGE ones - as big or bigger than the protests against the Iraq war). There was condemnation from Arab countries. The ‘goodwill’ towards the U.S. ended the day the U.S. buried its dead and began fighting back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-bush-wants-to-become-a-dictator/247226.md?page=3)